5 ms·

I don't want somebody shooting for any reason on the BART.

SllX 8y ago
I don’t think anyone does, but I think that is besides the parent’s point.
wyclif 8y ago
I don't either, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let some scummy BART thief rob and assault me when I have a concealed carry permit.
darpa_escapee 8y ago
Agreed. I don't want to be caught in the cross-fire between a criminal and a layman trying to be a hero.
- stickfigure 8y ago
  I know this sounds crazy, but I'd be willing to tolerate a modest number of bystander deaths if it meant a dramatic uptick in the number of criminal deaths. There can't be that many criminals. The steady-state equilibrium might be safer than the current regime, which is that criminals can assault (and kill) with little risk to themselves. Of course I'd like my chance of death-by-bullet to be zero. But for whatever reason, that doesn't seem to be an option on the table.
  - darpa_escapee 8y ago
    > I know this sounds crazy, but I'd be willing to tolerate a modest number of bystander deaths if it meant a dramatic uptick in the number of criminal deaths. I'm of the opinion that it's better for a criminal to walk free than for an innocent person to be punished or killed for something they have nothing to do with.
    - symlinkk 8y ago
      If criminals are walking free left and right, they will feel less afraid to commit more crimes, including murdering innocents.
      - darpa_escapee 8y ago
        > If criminals are walking free left and right They aren't: conviction rates are high and crime rates are at record lows.
    - wolco 8y ago
      If the criminal kills innocent people all hope is lost in your opinion.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- JPKab 8y ago
  What if that layman isn't trying to be a hero. What if they are just exercising their right to protect themselves or their family? When the police in a municipality have the monopoly right to posess and use force to protect citizens, then citizens should expect them to actually keep them safe. If they fail in this duty, citizens should have recourse. Oakland in particular has a very difficult problem prosecuting criminals. The "stop snitching" culture that is prevalent in urban, black communities, combined with historical mistrust of police, translates to no cooperation and no arrests. Criminals aren't being deterred, and are acting with impunity. Probability is on b your side in keeping you safe, until one day you're the unlucky target. You won't be able to defend yourself, the other riders will not help and will pretend to not see you, and you will feel the helplessness that I once felt when I was savagely beaten by several laughing teens in DC next to a metro station. None of them were caught, but the police were sure helpful in telling me that the station I went to was a bad place for white people to go and I shouldn't go there anymore. Layman with weapons isn't ideal, but neither is the delusion that the police can keep you safe in an area rife with cultural dysfunction and the young, borderline psyco men who target anyone that looks like they are productive for predation.
  - darpa_escapee 8y ago
    > What if that layman isn't trying to be a hero. Stray bullets don't care about the shooter's intentions.
    - pteredactyl 8y ago
      The ideal is for the firearm to be a threat deterrence. And that it would not be used.
      - darpa_escapee 8y ago
        Seems to me that escalating a situation with firearms increases the chances of a gun being shot.
        8y ago

SllX 8y ago

I don’t think anyone does, but I think that is besides the parent’s point.

I don't either, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let some scummy BART thief rob and assault me when I have a concealed carry permit.

darpa_escapee 8y ago

Agreed. I don't want to be caught in the cross-fire between a criminal and a layman trying to be a hero.

stickfigure 8y ago
I know this sounds crazy, but I'd be willing to tolerate a modest number of bystander deaths if it meant a dramatic uptick in the number of criminal deaths. There can't be that many criminals. The steady-state equilibrium might be safer than the current regime, which is that criminals can assault (and kill) with little risk to themselves. Of course I'd like my chance of death-by-bullet to be zero. But for whatever reason, that doesn't seem to be an option on the table.
- darpa_escapee 8y ago
  > I know this sounds crazy, but I'd be willing to tolerate a modest number of bystander deaths if it meant a dramatic uptick in the number of criminal deaths. I'm of the opinion that it's better for a criminal to walk free than for an innocent person to be punished or killed for something they have nothing to do with.
  - symlinkk 8y ago
    If criminals are walking free left and right, they will feel less afraid to commit more crimes, including murdering innocents.
    - darpa_escapee 8y ago
      > If criminals are walking free left and right They aren't: conviction rates are high and crime rates are at record lows.
  - wolco 8y ago
    If the criminal kills innocent people all hope is lost in your opinion.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
JPKab 8y ago
What if that layman isn't trying to be a hero. What if they are just exercising their right to protect themselves or their family? When the police in a municipality have the monopoly right to posess and use force to protect citizens, then citizens should expect them to actually keep them safe. If they fail in this duty, citizens should have recourse. Oakland in particular has a very difficult problem prosecuting criminals. The "stop snitching" culture that is prevalent in urban, black communities, combined with historical mistrust of police, translates to no cooperation and no arrests. Criminals aren't being deterred, and are acting with impunity. Probability is on b your side in keeping you safe, until one day you're the unlucky target. You won't be able to defend yourself, the other riders will not help and will pretend to not see you, and you will feel the helplessness that I once felt when I was savagely beaten by several laughing teens in DC next to a metro station. None of them were caught, but the police were sure helpful in telling me that the station I went to was a bad place for white people to go and I shouldn't go there anymore. Layman with weapons isn't ideal, but neither is the delusion that the police can keep you safe in an area rife with cultural dysfunction and the young, borderline psyco men who target anyone that looks like they are productive for predation.
- darpa_escapee 8y ago
  > What if that layman isn't trying to be a hero. Stray bullets don't care about the shooter's intentions.
  - pteredactyl 8y ago
    The ideal is for the firearm to be a threat deterrence. And that it would not be used.
    - darpa_escapee 8y ago
      Seems to me that escalating a situation with firearms increases the chances of a gun being shot.
      - 8y ago