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This 999999999 times over. Straight up Communism has been responsible for more deaths than Nazism. Both are bad ideologies for different reasons. The fact that

This 999999999 times over. Straight up Communism has been responsible for more deaths than Nazism. Both are bad ideologies for different reasons. The fact that many give communism and countries that still espouse its values (IE: China) a pass, while condemning Nazism are showing a very big double standard. Of course it becomes utter hypocrisy when a large group of (progressives) condemn Nazi's while wearing their communist logos, idealizing communist leaders etc.. Often many of them have never lived in or set foot in a communist country. With the recent trend of banning speech you don't like/agree with under the guise of hate speech the west has opened up pandora's box for a similar thing. Sure what some people may say can be utterly repugnant, but what is happening today is similar in many ways to what happened with communist regimes. A few powerful individuals set the tone (replace the government with big tech and the media), they get the masses to do their bidding via propaganda, eliminating dissenting opinions (IE: Bans for things such as stating scientific facts on Twitter etc..) and crushing anybody who dissents from the narrative. The power goes to a few, and human nature in the form or greed, desire for power, ego etc. takes over in the leadership class. It hasn't gotten to the point of murder in the west (yet), but looking at the progression it has already ratcheted up to violence.

skh 8y ago
I suggest to you that you may be a victim of popoganda. Thee is in your writing a sense of urgency and direness. Fear monger it is a profitable business for “news” organizations. I use quotes around news because such media is really entertainment. It’s easier to keep viewers hooked via fear monger it. I’m old enough to remember when conservatives in the U.S. were the ones clamoring to regulate speech on college campuses and liberals decried censorship. Now it is reversed. I’m guessing we have opposite political philosophies and in the cruelty environment there s little common ground. Perhaps though you’ll agree that he essence of the problems you fear and mentioned stem from too much power concentrated in too few hands. Let us strive for a system where power is spread out.
- friedman23 8y ago
  I'm responding to your unsaid argument, political power is the most dangerous type of power. There is a qualitative difference between the Rockefellers/Carnegies (the peak of economic power) and Maos/Hitlers/Stalins (the peak of political power) of the world. All communism does is replace the economic class system of capitalism with a political one.
- lgleason 8y ago
  I remember that as well and rejected the extreme right control during that time. That said, what it has been replaced with has taking us from the frying pan into the fire with the tactics. When I see one side trying to force others into their belief system by shame, emotional blackmail, violence, character assassination, career destruction etc. I am generally very skeptical of that side's message as propaganda. To be very clear, beyond what I have read, I've personally experienced this at the alter of progressivism and know others who have as well. The big thing is not that we come from different political philosophies. It is that all who want to espouse them are afforded the opportunity to debate and discuss them freely. These days in tech, many corporate settings etc., many fear losing their job, having their professional life destroyed, etc. for expressing views that go against the progressive narrative. Once again I have personally experienced this and know others who have as well in addition to what others have reported. Before things got so politically charged I used to enjoy learning about the views from the other side and having those discussions. These days a mono-culture has taken over and we have lost that which I reject. But to your point, I agree that having power spread out it a better way. Let people have actual freedom to choose what works best for them, and, more importantly actually respect different view points...which is sadly a lost art today.
  - com2kid 8y ago
    > When I see one side trying to force others into their belief system by shame, emotional blackmail, violence, character assassination, career destruction etc. I am generally very skeptical of that side's message as propaganda. To be very clear, beyond what I have read, I've personally experienced this at the alter of progressivism and know others who have as well. Both sides do this, almost equally. It isn't a progressive vs conservative thing, it is a "someone wants to crush the other side" thing. Conservative commentators are forced to tow the party line or become outcasts. Progressive commentators, same thing. If one of Trump's policies works out well, NYT isn't going to run an article about it, nor is Fox news going to give serious consideration to any of his failings. Both sides will however name and shame anyone who doesn't tow the line. > Before things got so politically charged I used to enjoy learning about the views from the other side and having those discussions. These days a mono-culture has taken over and we have lost that which I reject. The problem is both sides are working to stifle free speech. Conservative trolls have no issue ruining the life of anyone who they decides deserves it, and many progressives have no qualms about doing the same! It is sad that people cannot have even polite public discourse in this nation anymore for free of consequence from their fellow citizens. Someone a world has been created where we need not fear the government, we need only fear ourselves.
lifeformed 8y ago
Maybe the relevant common factor is totalitarianism, rather than solely the economic model.
- doombolt 8y ago
  How do you disallow ownership of means of production without totalitarianism? Imagine a person has a small auto repair or sewing shop. They will not give up on profit unless you raid them, rinse, repeat. That's what communism is about and you have to confiscate a lot of pre-existing stuff. Yes you can have hybrid model where you leave a lot of small business around, which is no longer communism as we know it since there's a lot of bourgeois people feeling great compared to workers.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > How do you disallow ownership of means of production without totalitarianism? The same way you disallow ownership of government office without totalitarianism; by making the thing that can't be privately owned publicly controlled via democratic accountability. > Imagine a person has a small auto repair or sewing shop. They will not give up on profit unless you raid them, rinse, repeat. Or, imagine a person owns the right to tax a small village. They likewise won't give up the profits unless you raid them, etc.; that doesn't make the transition away from feudalism totalitarian, it just means that changes in social concepts of property rights face resistance from those who have power in the old system that they would not in the new. > Yes you can have hybrid model where you leave a lot of small business around, which is no longer communism as we know it It's no longer a system where the only property that exists are what Communism holds to exist by right, which explicitly excludes the means of production, but since virtually every actual “Communist” state did some degree or another of that hybrid model in practice, it absolutely is “Communism as we know it”. > since there's a lot of bourgeois people feeling great compared to workers. Well, perhaps some petit bourgeois, but Communists more have problems with them as class allies of the haut bourgeoisie than directly.
boomboomsubban 8y ago
>A few powerful individuals set the tone (replace the government with big tech and the media), they get the masses to do their bidding via propaganda, eliminating dissenting opinions (IE: Bans for things such as stating scientific facts on Twitter etc..) and crushing anybody who dissents from the narrative. So like how the government still has anticommunist propaganda in textbooks and regularly on various TV shows? And how supporting any Communist-action committee, including the Communist Party USA, is a crime under US law? I don't know who you call communist, but the actual communists have faced over a century of abuse far more direct than you mention.

skh 8y ago

I suggest to you that you may be a victim of popoganda. Thee is in your writing a sense of urgency and direness. Fear monger it is a profitable business for “news” organizations. I use quotes around news because such media is really entertainment. It’s easier to keep viewers hooked via fear monger it. I’m old enough to remember when conservatives in the U.S. were the ones clamoring to regulate speech on college campuses and liberals decried censorship. Now it is reversed. I’m guessing we have opposite political philosophies and in the cruelty environment there s little common ground. Perhaps though you’ll agree that he essence of the problems you fear and mentioned stem from too much power concentrated in too few hands. Let us strive for a system where power is spread out.

friedman23 8y ago
I'm responding to your unsaid argument, political power is the most dangerous type of power. There is a qualitative difference between the Rockefellers/Carnegies (the peak of economic power) and Maos/Hitlers/Stalins (the peak of political power) of the world. All communism does is replace the economic class system of capitalism with a political one.
lgleason 8y ago
I remember that as well and rejected the extreme right control during that time. That said, what it has been replaced with has taking us from the frying pan into the fire with the tactics. When I see one side trying to force others into their belief system by shame, emotional blackmail, violence, character assassination, career destruction etc. I am generally very skeptical of that side's message as propaganda. To be very clear, beyond what I have read, I've personally experienced this at the alter of progressivism and know others who have as well. The big thing is not that we come from different political philosophies. It is that all who want to espouse them are afforded the opportunity to debate and discuss them freely. These days in tech, many corporate settings etc., many fear losing their job, having their professional life destroyed, etc. for expressing views that go against the progressive narrative. Once again I have personally experienced this and know others who have as well in addition to what others have reported. Before things got so politically charged I used to enjoy learning about the views from the other side and having those discussions. These days a mono-culture has taken over and we have lost that which I reject. But to your point, I agree that having power spread out it a better way. Let people have actual freedom to choose what works best for them, and, more importantly actually respect different view points...which is sadly a lost art today.
- com2kid 8y ago
  > When I see one side trying to force others into their belief system by shame, emotional blackmail, violence, character assassination, career destruction etc. I am generally very skeptical of that side's message as propaganda. To be very clear, beyond what I have read, I've personally experienced this at the alter of progressivism and know others who have as well. Both sides do this, almost equally. It isn't a progressive vs conservative thing, it is a "someone wants to crush the other side" thing. Conservative commentators are forced to tow the party line or become outcasts. Progressive commentators, same thing. If one of Trump's policies works out well, NYT isn't going to run an article about it, nor is Fox news going to give serious consideration to any of his failings. Both sides will however name and shame anyone who doesn't tow the line. > Before things got so politically charged I used to enjoy learning about the views from the other side and having those discussions. These days a mono-culture has taken over and we have lost that which I reject. The problem is both sides are working to stifle free speech. Conservative trolls have no issue ruining the life of anyone who they decides deserves it, and many progressives have no qualms about doing the same! It is sad that people cannot have even polite public discourse in this nation anymore for free of consequence from their fellow citizens. Someone a world has been created where we need not fear the government, we need only fear ourselves.

lifeformed 8y ago

Maybe the relevant common factor is totalitarianism, rather than solely the economic model.

doombolt 8y ago
How do you disallow ownership of means of production without totalitarianism? Imagine a person has a small auto repair or sewing shop. They will not give up on profit unless you raid them, rinse, repeat. That's what communism is about and you have to confiscate a lot of pre-existing stuff. Yes you can have hybrid model where you leave a lot of small business around, which is no longer communism as we know it since there's a lot of bourgeois people feeling great compared to workers.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > How do you disallow ownership of means of production without totalitarianism? The same way you disallow ownership of government office without totalitarianism; by making the thing that can't be privately owned publicly controlled via democratic accountability. > Imagine a person has a small auto repair or sewing shop. They will not give up on profit unless you raid them, rinse, repeat. Or, imagine a person owns the right to tax a small village. They likewise won't give up the profits unless you raid them, etc.; that doesn't make the transition away from feudalism totalitarian, it just means that changes in social concepts of property rights face resistance from those who have power in the old system that they would not in the new. > Yes you can have hybrid model where you leave a lot of small business around, which is no longer communism as we know it It's no longer a system where the only property that exists are what Communism holds to exist by right, which explicitly excludes the means of production, but since virtually every actual “Communist” state did some degree or another of that hybrid model in practice, it absolutely is “Communism as we know it”. > since there's a lot of bourgeois people feeling great compared to workers. Well, perhaps some petit bourgeois, but Communists more have problems with them as class allies of the haut bourgeoisie than directly.

boomboomsubban 8y ago

>A few powerful individuals set the tone (replace the government with big tech and the media), they get the masses to do their bidding via propaganda, eliminating dissenting opinions (IE: Bans for things such as stating scientific facts on Twitter etc..) and crushing anybody who dissents from the narrative. So like how the government still has anticommunist propaganda in textbooks and regularly on various TV shows? And how supporting any Communist-action committee, including the Communist Party USA, is a crime under US law? I don't know who you call communist, but the actual communists have faced over a century of abuse far more direct than you mention.