7 ms·

They claim: it wasn’t true communism.

by NedIsakoff 8y ago

doombolt 8y ago
Stop praising any non-true communists then, which is basically everyone who tried to practice it.
muro 8y ago
Whenever it fails, "it wasn't true communism". Also, always comes from people who don't/didn't live there.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  I don’t know of any countries that have adopted “true” communism. Mostly because it’s just easier to seize control of a command economy than figuring out a way to share power.
  - eklavya 8y ago
    Or maybe, people are people and somethings are just fantasies?
- coldtea 8y ago
  Well, and whenever capitalist countries enslave 2/3rd of the worlds in colonies (even having "human zoos"), it's not "true capitalism". >Also, always comes from people who don't/didn't live there You'd be surprised. E.g.: https://www.economist.com/europe/2017/10/12/many-eastern-europeans-feel-nostalgia-for-the-communist-era https://www.economist.com/europe/2017/10/12/many-eastern-eur... "Since communist nostalgia is a growing phenomenon in Eastern Europe today, it has different ways of manifesting itself amongst post-communist citizens. Nostalgic types are quite particular in their reverence for the past and share different things they are nostalgic about (this is shown in their electoral support for communist and socialist parties). Most of these individuals are nostalgic for job security, free education and reliable and affordable healthcare. This is because most Eastern Europeans remember and long for the vast social programmes and services that are no longer offered under capitalism." https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/kurt-biray/communist-nostalgia-in-eastern-europe-longing-for-past https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/kurt-biray/... "The poll showed 30 percent of Ukrainians approved of the change to democracy in 2009, down from 72 percent in 1991. In Bulgaria and Lithuania the slide was to just over half the population from nearer three-quarters in 1991." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-communism-nostalgia/special-report-in-eastern-europe-people-pine-for-socialism-idUSTRE5A701320091108 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-communism-nostalgia/speci...
  - doombolt 8y ago
    You can't undo colonialism by suffering communism after gaining independence. You just get 2x of famines, mass executions and freedom impairment. Or maybe 3x since communist regimes tend to be more violent than colonial regimes. You also can't colonize yourself but you can install communism and suffer famines, mass executions and no freedom. You can say that Eastern Europe didn't have famines or mass executions after WW2. But hey, Russians still did! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1946%E2%80%9347 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1946%E2%80%93... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novocherkassk_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novocherkassk_massacre
  - EdwardDiego 8y ago
    > Well, and whenever capitalist countries enslave 2/3rd of the worlds in colonies (even having "human zoos"), it's not "true capitalism". I don't think I've ever heard anyone defend imperialism by saying that it wasn't true capitalism.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      No, but I heard people condemn communism for its crimes all the time, but being OK with capitalism despite its crimes...
wallace_f 8y ago
PRC also wasn't even the "true" government of China. The US acknowledged ROC as the true government. We couldn't be bothered to do anything about it when the ROC ran away to Formosa, but then Eisenhower realized US interests in the Pacific theater were threatened. That's also why communism doesn't work. Self interest is a much better motivator. We still live in a world where the Cambodian genocide murdered millions while we bombed the hell out of Indochina in a scorched earth policy. Laos is the most bombed country on earth and most people dont realize that. A lot of people on HN have highly-demanded skillsets which keep them fat and happy and focused on problems away from the realities that the world is filled with a lot of evil people. Those are the reasons "real communism" will never work in my opinion. Well-regulated self-interest is such a better way to govern humanities terrible behavioral problems.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >PRC also wasn't even the "true" government of China. The US acknowledged ROC as the true government. PRC might not ave been the "true government", but who the "US acknowledged" is not the criterion. >Those are the reasons "real communism" will never work in my opinion. Well-regulated self-interest is such a better way to govern humanities terrible behavioral problems. Well, Stalin practiced exactly "Well-regulated self-interest" -- his self-interest, of course.

They claim: it wasn’t true communism.

doombolt 8y ago

Stop praising any non-true communists then, which is basically everyone who tried to practice it.

muro 8y ago

Whenever it fails, "it wasn't true communism". Also, always comes from people who don't/didn't live there.

saagarjha 8y ago
I don’t know of any countries that have adopted “true” communism. Mostly because it’s just easier to seize control of a command economy than figuring out a way to share power.
- eklavya 8y ago
  Or maybe, people are people and somethings are just fantasies?
coldtea 8y ago
Well, and whenever capitalist countries enslave 2/3rd of the worlds in colonies (even having "human zoos"), it's not "true capitalism". >Also, always comes from people who don't/didn't live there You'd be surprised. E.g.: https://www.economist.com/europe/2017/10/12/many-eastern-europeans-feel-nostalgia-for-the-communist-era https://www.economist.com/europe/2017/10/12/many-eastern-eur... "Since communist nostalgia is a growing phenomenon in Eastern Europe today, it has different ways of manifesting itself amongst post-communist citizens. Nostalgic types are quite particular in their reverence for the past and share different things they are nostalgic about (this is shown in their electoral support for communist and socialist parties). Most of these individuals are nostalgic for job security, free education and reliable and affordable healthcare. This is because most Eastern Europeans remember and long for the vast social programmes and services that are no longer offered under capitalism." https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/kurt-biray/communist-nostalgia-in-eastern-europe-longing-for-past https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/kurt-biray/... "The poll showed 30 percent of Ukrainians approved of the change to democracy in 2009, down from 72 percent in 1991. In Bulgaria and Lithuania the slide was to just over half the population from nearer three-quarters in 1991." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-communism-nostalgia/special-report-in-eastern-europe-people-pine-for-socialism-idUSTRE5A701320091108 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-communism-nostalgia/speci...
- doombolt 8y ago
  You can't undo colonialism by suffering communism after gaining independence. You just get 2x of famines, mass executions and freedom impairment. Or maybe 3x since communist regimes tend to be more violent than colonial regimes. You also can't colonize yourself but you can install communism and suffer famines, mass executions and no freedom. You can say that Eastern Europe didn't have famines or mass executions after WW2. But hey, Russians still did! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1946%E2%80%9347 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1946%E2%80%93... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novocherkassk_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novocherkassk_massacre
- EdwardDiego 8y ago
  > Well, and whenever capitalist countries enslave 2/3rd of the worlds in colonies (even having "human zoos"), it's not "true capitalism". I don't think I've ever heard anyone defend imperialism by saying that it wasn't true capitalism.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    No, but I heard people condemn communism for its crimes all the time, but being OK with capitalism despite its crimes...

wallace_f 8y ago

PRC also wasn't even the "true" government of China. The US acknowledged ROC as the true government. We couldn't be bothered to do anything about it when the ROC ran away to Formosa, but then Eisenhower realized US interests in the Pacific theater were threatened. That's also why communism doesn't work. Self interest is a much better motivator. We still live in a world where the Cambodian genocide murdered millions while we bombed the hell out of Indochina in a scorched earth policy. Laos is the most bombed country on earth and most people dont realize that. A lot of people on HN have highly-demanded skillsets which keep them fat and happy and focused on problems away from the realities that the world is filled with a lot of evil people. Those are the reasons "real communism" will never work in my opinion. Well-regulated self-interest is such a better way to govern humanities terrible behavioral problems.

coldtea 8y ago
>PRC also wasn't even the "true" government of China. The US acknowledged ROC as the true government. PRC might not ave been the "true government", but who the "US acknowledged" is not the criterion. >Those are the reasons "real communism" will never work in my opinion. Well-regulated self-interest is such a better way to govern humanities terrible behavioral problems. Well, Stalin practiced exactly "Well-regulated self-interest" -- his self-interest, of course.