4 ms·

I see, it's an internship targeting hiring minorities - thanks for the link. I am a middle aged white male, and there are lots of internships that seem to be pr

I see, it's an internship targeting hiring minorities - thanks for the link. I am a middle aged white male, and there are lots of internships that seem to be primarily hiring white and asian males, and we need to encourage more minorities and women in cs and I guess I'm okay with this. The reason is that if we try really hard to encourage nontraditional people to be devs, we are going to be more likely to get some of them over the hump. I don't think internships targeting minorities lessens the value of non-minorities and reduces their opportunities in life, because there are so many jobs already for asian and white male programmers. I have realized that no one ever tried to explicitly look for someone like me in their job listings - a white male from a non-name school. I didn't get into harvard or mit, I didn't get an internship from a prestigious school, I didn't work with a famous professor. I did have the advantage that everywhere I looked, there were people looking like me working at leading companies. I just had to pass interview loops and get into that school. I was never the first woman or black guy in a group - I was just another white male. So maybe think about that if you hate on this company. What if you were trying to do something and you "looked different" than everyone else - it would be so much harder.

workquest7 8y ago
I am specifically wondering about the legality of this, not the morality. I wanted to avoid this discussion, but I guess its already brought up. You are okay with job postings that are the equivalent of hanging up a "No Asians Need Apply Sign"? I'm Asian. I grew up in a place without many Asians so I looked different than everyone else. I remember I was once in a community group of over 100 people, and the only other people of my race were my immediate family. I didn't have parents that were up to date with college admissions so when the college application asked my race, I filled it in, not knowing that they'd use it to discriminate against me. I'm going to stay purposefully vague to avoid doxxing myself, but all Asians aren't the same. Yes there are some groups that are doing very well in Silicon Valley but there are other groups that you hardly ever see. In my first job, I was in fact the only Asian person on the team. It's not that uncommon for that to be the case outside of California. It sounds like you might think separate but equal is an acceptable doctrine for jobs: "It's okay if you can't have this internship you want, it's for people of X race, but don't worry there are so many jobs already for people of your race." It's a good thing it was abolished in Brown v. Board of Education. All I want is an equal opportunity for people of my race. Whenever someone wants to discriminate on the basis of race, they rationalize and justify why it is okay in this case. Luckily society has realized this and has created bright line rules so we don't end up on a slippery slope of when is it okay to racially discriminate. I thought job postings where certain races are excluded was way beyond this line and I hope the law agrees. It's great that you had an advantage in life. Give back and help those who don't. But don't use your power to restrict the opportunities of other people who don't share your race or thoughts.
- Latteland 8y ago
  I don't think separate but equal is okay. I was also afraid of the racial end but decided to make a hopefully non-inflammatory comment. I am not okay with things that say no Asians or no whites or no whatever. I was trying to describe something else, encouraging people of different backgrounds to do this dev stuff too. Like I said, no one in my entire 30 year long professional career every said "I wish we had more people like you" (meaning white men). Never once. No one said I wish we had more people from my school or state (which are both severely underrepresented in cs, I've only ever met one other programmer from my state, never another one from my undergrad school). I do have a sense of not being appreciated as an individual. Of course Asian people are all individuals, it's not fair to group what many people in the us would say that means (some kind of almost racist thing based on looks). I feel like I should point out again the ad also wasn't looking to hire someone like me (white male), and I never had a silicon valley internship, and no one from my undergrad school did either. I have always heard and supported that we need more diversity. I think if I was Asian, I'd probably feel pretty pissed that the world seems to be trying to discriminate against me, for lots of reasons, among them that people should be treated as individuals. But I hope there's benefit in trying to encourage more people who aren't in the predominate groups.
nailer 8y ago
It's hiring underrepresented groups, not minitories - Asians are a minority but are barred as well.

workquest7 8y ago

I am specifically wondering about the legality of this, not the morality. I wanted to avoid this discussion, but I guess its already brought up. You are okay with job postings that are the equivalent of hanging up a "No Asians Need Apply Sign"? I'm Asian. I grew up in a place without many Asians so I looked different than everyone else. I remember I was once in a community group of over 100 people, and the only other people of my race were my immediate family. I didn't have parents that were up to date with college admissions so when the college application asked my race, I filled it in, not knowing that they'd use it to discriminate against me. I'm going to stay purposefully vague to avoid doxxing myself, but all Asians aren't the same. Yes there are some groups that are doing very well in Silicon Valley but there are other groups that you hardly ever see. In my first job, I was in fact the only Asian person on the team. It's not that uncommon for that to be the case outside of California. It sounds like you might think separate but equal is an acceptable doctrine for jobs: "It's okay if you can't have this internship you want, it's for people of X race, but don't worry there are so many jobs already for people of your race." It's a good thing it was abolished in Brown v. Board of Education. All I want is an equal opportunity for people of my race. Whenever someone wants to discriminate on the basis of race, they rationalize and justify why it is okay in this case. Luckily society has realized this and has created bright line rules so we don't end up on a slippery slope of when is it okay to racially discriminate. I thought job postings where certain races are excluded was way beyond this line and I hope the law agrees. It's great that you had an advantage in life. Give back and help those who don't. But don't use your power to restrict the opportunities of other people who don't share your race or thoughts.

Latteland 8y ago
I don't think separate but equal is okay. I was also afraid of the racial end but decided to make a hopefully non-inflammatory comment. I am not okay with things that say no Asians or no whites or no whatever. I was trying to describe something else, encouraging people of different backgrounds to do this dev stuff too. Like I said, no one in my entire 30 year long professional career every said "I wish we had more people like you" (meaning white men). Never once. No one said I wish we had more people from my school or state (which are both severely underrepresented in cs, I've only ever met one other programmer from my state, never another one from my undergrad school). I do have a sense of not being appreciated as an individual. Of course Asian people are all individuals, it's not fair to group what many people in the us would say that means (some kind of almost racist thing based on looks). I feel like I should point out again the ad also wasn't looking to hire someone like me (white male), and I never had a silicon valley internship, and no one from my undergrad school did either. I have always heard and supported that we need more diversity. I think if I was Asian, I'd probably feel pretty pissed that the world seems to be trying to discriminate against me, for lots of reasons, among them that people should be treated as individuals. But I hope there's benefit in trying to encourage more people who aren't in the predominate groups.

nailer 8y ago

It's hiring underrepresented groups, not minitories - Asians are a minority but are barred as well.