4 ms·

>Historically in the US, it has been those in power pitting group against group like poor whites against slaves in this case (or one ethnic group versus another

by lsc 8y ago

>Historically in the US, it has been those in power pitting group against group like poor whites against slaves in this case (or one ethnic group versus another in other struggles with labor in the North during the same time period and afterwards), for the purpose of keeping those at the bottom occupied with an easily identified other, versus those with a lot more power and harder to reach. Yeah, I keep hearing this, and I just... saying things happen because people are too dumb to see their own self interest is... it's just really unsatisfying. It fits the data, but it also tastes like the other times in my life where I've been wrong because I'm arrogant. It's also unsatisfying because it's not particularly predictive; it doesn't tell me which elites the masses will follow and why.

suzzer99 8y ago
It's all about hijacking natural human tribaliasm for your own ends imo.
stevenwoo 8y ago
I can imagine a situation where people feel they have little choice but support the status quo, that does not make them too dumb to see their self interest. There are quite a few reports from the Civil War on both sides of men rising up against conscription as the war dragged on or in the North of whites taking it out on blacks as it was their fault. There's also the trope of the bonding that takes place within smaller military units that makes them committed not to the cause but to each other. In addition the other side of people too dumb to see their self interest, I am not saying these people are dumb but we see that today if we turn on the news to see for one example - farmers rationalizing themselves being hurt by retaliatory tariffs on American farm stuffs - they seem cognizant of the problem, aware of the higher order consequences for themselves, and willing to accept them to try what seems to be on some terms a way to attempt for fair trade with China, and still support the President. It may be rationalizing but it's not done out of ignorance or stupidity. What you are asking for in the end sound like some equivalent to Psychohistory in Asimov's Foundation, which would be a neat idea.

by lsc 8y ago

suzzer99 8y ago

It's all about hijacking natural human tribaliasm for your own ends imo.

stevenwoo 8y ago

I can imagine a situation where people feel they have little choice but support the status quo, that does not make them too dumb to see their self interest. There are quite a few reports from the Civil War on both sides of men rising up against conscription as the war dragged on or in the North of whites taking it out on blacks as it was their fault. There's also the trope of the bonding that takes place within smaller military units that makes them committed not to the cause but to each other. In addition the other side of people too dumb to see their self interest, I am not saying these people are dumb but we see that today if we turn on the news to see for one example - farmers rationalizing themselves being hurt by retaliatory tariffs on American farm stuffs - they seem cognizant of the problem, aware of the higher order consequences for themselves, and willing to accept them to try what seems to be on some terms a way to attempt for fair trade with China, and still support the President. It may be rationalizing but it's not done out of ignorance or stupidity. What you are asking for in the end sound like some equivalent to Psychohistory in Asimov's Foundation, which would be a neat idea.