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Unlike Uber (or even HN for that matter), China's social credit system is transparent and explicit in the way it rewards or deducts points. You know what you d

Unlike Uber (or even HN for that matter), China's social credit system is transparent and explicit in the way it rewards or deducts points. You know what you did wrongly to lose points, so that you can avoid it next time. You also know what are good things that you can do to improve your score.

ndnxhs 8y ago
Which is perfect for the government because everyone will change their behaviours to match what the government wants.
- paraditedc 8y ago
  Totally agree.
- throwaway34924 8y ago
  But the government is made up of people. If I recall, there are something like 90 million members in the CCP. And really, any Chinese citizen can join and move up the ranks.
  - mtgx 8y ago
    So we're pretending Xi is not a dictator now? Did we forget how he arrested all of his real opponents and critics before re-election? You make it sound like China is almost a democracy which couldn't be farther from the truth.
bsder 8y ago
> You know what you did wrongly to lose points, so that you can avoid it next time. Except if you don't agree with the definition of "wrong" and "good". THAT you can't correct.
- paraditedc 8y ago
  No need to use capital letters. I fully agree.
rapnie 8y ago
It is not all that transparent. At a certain point you will end up on one or more blacklists, and there is no clear way to get off it again, or even arbitrage this act. https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/12/12/chinas-chilling-social-credit-blacklist https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/12/12/chinas-chilling-social-c... Then the rules system is very complex, and probably will be ever changing, being fine-tuned. There are rules in preparation (or already implemented) where your network of friends and relatives affect your credit score, etc. Very dystopic social engineering. It will be harder and harder to check whether all rules are applied equally across all people, I imagine.
- paraditedc 8y ago
  > At a certain point you will end up on one or more blacklists, and there is no clear way to get off it again, or even arbitrage this act. > There are rules in preparation (or already implemented) where your network of friends and relatives affect your credit score, etc. Are these your opinions or facts? I'm talking about facts here.
  - rapnie 8y ago
    Besides the link I already provided, there are countless other articles about the blacklists: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+social+credit+blacklist&t=fpas&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+social+credit+blacklist&t=fp... There are also many mentions of your friends network affecting your score, like in this Wired article from 2017: > Zhima Credit’s algorithm considers not only whether you repay your bills but also what you buy, what degrees you hold, and the scores of your friends. https://www.wired.com/story/age-of-social-credit/ https://www.wired.com/story/age-of-social-credit/
    - paraditedc 8y ago
      > Zhima Credit’s algorithm considers not only whether you repay your bills but also what you buy, what degrees you hold, and the scores of your friends. I think you misunderstood what this means. It means when taking loans, the algorithm takes into account your score as well as your friends. This assertion in itself I must say I didn't find from any other sources. This, even if proven to true, is completely different from what you are suggesting (i.e. your friend's score affecting your score). Also, this Zhima Credit is just a private owned, part of the system which focuses on financial well being of individuals, it's not linked to other component of the system. Other social score components might not have this network effect.
mtgx 8y ago
Transparency will also make it very easy to abide by some, though. Like imagine if Google's ranking algorithm was public. SEO spammers would greatly profit from that but overall the system would suffer due to their over-optimization for some things.
- paraditedc 8y ago
  Hold on a sec. You are advocating for less transparency for government policies? I need to bookmark this.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

ndnxhs 8y ago

Which is perfect for the government because everyone will change their behaviours to match what the government wants.

paraditedc 8y ago
Totally agree.
throwaway34924 8y ago
But the government is made up of people. If I recall, there are something like 90 million members in the CCP. And really, any Chinese citizen can join and move up the ranks.
- mtgx 8y ago
  So we're pretending Xi is not a dictator now? Did we forget how he arrested all of his real opponents and critics before re-election? You make it sound like China is almost a democracy which couldn't be farther from the truth.

bsder 8y ago

> You know what you did wrongly to lose points, so that you can avoid it next time. Except if you don't agree with the definition of "wrong" and "good". THAT you can't correct.

paraditedc 8y ago
No need to use capital letters. I fully agree.

rapnie 8y ago

It is not all that transparent. At a certain point you will end up on one or more blacklists, and there is no clear way to get off it again, or even arbitrage this act. https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/12/12/chinas-chilling-social-credit-blacklist https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/12/12/chinas-chilling-social-c... Then the rules system is very complex, and probably will be ever changing, being fine-tuned. There are rules in preparation (or already implemented) where your network of friends and relatives affect your credit score, etc. Very dystopic social engineering. It will be harder and harder to check whether all rules are applied equally across all people, I imagine.

paraditedc 8y ago
> At a certain point you will end up on one or more blacklists, and there is no clear way to get off it again, or even arbitrage this act. > There are rules in preparation (or already implemented) where your network of friends and relatives affect your credit score, etc. Are these your opinions or facts? I'm talking about facts here.
- rapnie 8y ago
  Besides the link I already provided, there are countless other articles about the blacklists: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+social+credit+blacklist&t=fpas&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+social+credit+blacklist&t=fp... There are also many mentions of your friends network affecting your score, like in this Wired article from 2017: > Zhima Credit’s algorithm considers not only whether you repay your bills but also what you buy, what degrees you hold, and the scores of your friends. https://www.wired.com/story/age-of-social-credit/ https://www.wired.com/story/age-of-social-credit/
  - paraditedc 8y ago
    > Zhima Credit’s algorithm considers not only whether you repay your bills but also what you buy, what degrees you hold, and the scores of your friends. I think you misunderstood what this means. It means when taking loans, the algorithm takes into account your score as well as your friends. This assertion in itself I must say I didn't find from any other sources. This, even if proven to true, is completely different from what you are suggesting (i.e. your friend's score affecting your score). Also, this Zhima Credit is just a private owned, part of the system which focuses on financial well being of individuals, it's not linked to other component of the system. Other social score components might not have this network effect.

mtgx 8y ago

Transparency will also make it very easy to abide by some, though. Like imagine if Google's ranking algorithm was public. SEO spammers would greatly profit from that but overall the system would suffer due to their over-optimization for some things.

paraditedc 8y ago
Hold on a sec. You are advocating for less transparency for government policies? I need to bookmark this.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]