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> for a large tech company in San Francisco The company is easily identifiable just by searching for the text you quoted, so you're not really hiding which com

> for a large tech company in San Francisco The company is easily identifiable just by searching for the text you quoted, so you're not really hiding which company you're working for (if that's your intention). As to whether this kind of discrimination is legal: I'd assume a company that size has a huge legal department, and any corporate program they run has been vetted by their lawyers. So there's probably some loophole in the law that makes it legal. By the way, offering the internship only to second-year students would be age discrimination (it effectively excludes almost everyone older than 40, who are a protected class under federal law), and offering it only to full-time college students would be discriminating against people who can't afford to attend college full-time (e.g., because they have families they need to support).

dbbk 8y ago
You can go to university at any age.
niklasrde 8y ago
People over the age of 40 can be in their second year of college, can't they?
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  They are far less likely to be, so even though it's not discriminatory on its face, disparate impact analysis applies. Note, however, that disparate impact analysis for age discrimination is on a weaker standard (“reasonable factors other than age” rather than “business necessity”) than most other workplace disparate impact discrimination analyses. https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/regulations/adea_rfoa_qa_final_rule.cfm https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/regulations/adea_rfoa_qa_final_rul...
nailer 8y ago
> The company is easily identifiable just by searching for the text you quoted If anyone else is wondering: https://twitteracademy19.splashthat.com/ https://twitteracademy19.splashthat.com/
- Latteland 8y ago
  I see, it's an internship targeting hiring minorities - thanks for the link. I am a middle aged white male, and there are lots of internships that seem to be primarily hiring white and asian males, and we need to encourage more minorities and women in cs and I guess I'm okay with this. The reason is that if we try really hard to encourage nontraditional people to be devs, we are going to be more likely to get some of them over the hump. I don't think internships targeting minorities lessens the value of non-minorities and reduces their opportunities in life, because there are so many jobs already for asian and white male programmers. I have realized that no one ever tried to explicitly look for someone like me in their job listings - a white male from a non-name school. I didn't get into harvard or mit, I didn't get an internship from a prestigious school, I didn't work with a famous professor. I did have the advantage that everywhere I looked, there were people looking like me working at leading companies. I just had to pass interview loops and get into that school. I was never the first woman or black guy in a group - I was just another white male. So maybe think about that if you hate on this company. What if you were trying to do something and you "looked different" than everyone else - it would be so much harder.
  - workquest7 8y ago
    I am specifically wondering about the legality of this, not the morality. I wanted to avoid this discussion, but I guess its already brought up. You are okay with job postings that are the equivalent of hanging up a "No Asians Need Apply Sign"? I'm Asian. I grew up in a place without many Asians so I looked different than everyone else. I remember I was once in a community group of over 100 people, and the only other people of my race were my immediate family. I didn't have parents that were up to date with college admissions so when the college application asked my race, I filled it in, not knowing that they'd use it to discriminate against me. I'm going to stay purposefully vague to avoid doxxing myself, but all Asians aren't the same. Yes there are some groups that are doing very well in Silicon Valley but there are other groups that you hardly ever see. In my first job, I was in fact the only Asian person on the team. It's not that uncommon for that to be the case outside of California. It sounds like you might think separate but equal is an acceptable doctrine for jobs: "It's okay if you can't have this internship you want, it's for people of X race, but don't worry there are so many jobs already for people of your race." It's a good thing it was abolished in Brown v. Board of Education. All I want is an equal opportunity for people of my race. Whenever someone wants to discriminate on the basis of race, they rationalize and justify why it is okay in this case. Luckily society has realized this and has created bright line rules so we don't end up on a slippery slope of when is it okay to racially discriminate. I thought job postings where certain races are excluded was way beyond this line and I hope the law agrees. It's great that you had an advantage in life. Give back and help those who don't. But don't use your power to restrict the opportunities of other people who don't share your race or thoughts.
sdinsn 8y ago
> offering the internship only to second-year students would be age discrimination This is not true. > offering it only to full-time college students would be discriminating against people who can't afford to attend college full-time This is also not true.
- workquest7 8y ago
  IANAL, but it is only illegal to discriminate against protected classes. It is legal to discriminate against people without college degrees or aren't attending college, just as it is legal to discriminate against smokers, or people who can't code. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group
  - dukoid 8y ago
    The description seems to exclude students with disabilities not matching the filter though.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > IANAL, but it is only illegal to discriminate against protected classes. Age over 40 is a protected class, and anti-discrimination law protects not only against facially or intentionally discriminatory acts, but also against those with a disparate impact not sufficiently justified by business concerns (though the standard for that is weaker for age discrimination than other workplace discrimination.)
- nailer 8y ago
  I agree with you on both points, but your comment has no supporting arguments. That's not a good way to discuss anything.
  - sdinsn 8y ago
    The person I replied to didn't provide any arguments or sources. I encourage him to do his own research before making ignorant, incorrect comments.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> offering it only to full-time college students would be discriminating against people who can't afford to attend college full-time That's not a protected class though. Now, in both the students of a particular year and full-time students case, you could argue race discrimination as well as age-over-40; both of these would be disparate impact rather than facial discrimination, of course. Race might be an easier case to make, because age-over-40 has a lower bar for business justification of disparate impact.

dbbk 8y ago

You can go to university at any age.

niklasrde 8y ago

People over the age of 40 can be in their second year of college, can't they?

dragonwriter 8y ago
They are far less likely to be, so even though it's not discriminatory on its face, disparate impact analysis applies. Note, however, that disparate impact analysis for age discrimination is on a weaker standard (“reasonable factors other than age” rather than “business necessity”) than most other workplace disparate impact discrimination analyses. https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/regulations/adea_rfoa_qa_final_rule.cfm https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/regulations/adea_rfoa_qa_final_rul...

nailer 8y ago

> The company is easily identifiable just by searching for the text you quoted If anyone else is wondering: https://twitteracademy19.splashthat.com/ https://twitteracademy19.splashthat.com/

Latteland 8y ago
I see, it's an internship targeting hiring minorities - thanks for the link. I am a middle aged white male, and there are lots of internships that seem to be primarily hiring white and asian males, and we need to encourage more minorities and women in cs and I guess I'm okay with this. The reason is that if we try really hard to encourage nontraditional people to be devs, we are going to be more likely to get some of them over the hump. I don't think internships targeting minorities lessens the value of non-minorities and reduces their opportunities in life, because there are so many jobs already for asian and white male programmers. I have realized that no one ever tried to explicitly look for someone like me in their job listings - a white male from a non-name school. I didn't get into harvard or mit, I didn't get an internship from a prestigious school, I didn't work with a famous professor. I did have the advantage that everywhere I looked, there were people looking like me working at leading companies. I just had to pass interview loops and get into that school. I was never the first woman or black guy in a group - I was just another white male. So maybe think about that if you hate on this company. What if you were trying to do something and you "looked different" than everyone else - it would be so much harder.
- workquest7 8y ago
  I am specifically wondering about the legality of this, not the morality. I wanted to avoid this discussion, but I guess its already brought up. You are okay with job postings that are the equivalent of hanging up a "No Asians Need Apply Sign"? I'm Asian. I grew up in a place without many Asians so I looked different than everyone else. I remember I was once in a community group of over 100 people, and the only other people of my race were my immediate family. I didn't have parents that were up to date with college admissions so when the college application asked my race, I filled it in, not knowing that they'd use it to discriminate against me. I'm going to stay purposefully vague to avoid doxxing myself, but all Asians aren't the same. Yes there are some groups that are doing very well in Silicon Valley but there are other groups that you hardly ever see. In my first job, I was in fact the only Asian person on the team. It's not that uncommon for that to be the case outside of California. It sounds like you might think separate but equal is an acceptable doctrine for jobs: "It's okay if you can't have this internship you want, it's for people of X race, but don't worry there are so many jobs already for people of your race." It's a good thing it was abolished in Brown v. Board of Education. All I want is an equal opportunity for people of my race. Whenever someone wants to discriminate on the basis of race, they rationalize and justify why it is okay in this case. Luckily society has realized this and has created bright line rules so we don't end up on a slippery slope of when is it okay to racially discriminate. I thought job postings where certain races are excluded was way beyond this line and I hope the law agrees. It's great that you had an advantage in life. Give back and help those who don't. But don't use your power to restrict the opportunities of other people who don't share your race or thoughts.

sdinsn 8y ago

> offering the internship only to second-year students would be age discrimination This is not true. > offering it only to full-time college students would be discriminating against people who can't afford to attend college full-time This is also not true.

workquest7 8y ago
IANAL, but it is only illegal to discriminate against protected classes. It is legal to discriminate against people without college degrees or aren't attending college, just as it is legal to discriminate against smokers, or people who can't code. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group
- dukoid 8y ago
  The description seems to exclude students with disabilities not matching the filter though.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > IANAL, but it is only illegal to discriminate against protected classes. Age over 40 is a protected class, and anti-discrimination law protects not only against facially or intentionally discriminatory acts, but also against those with a disparate impact not sufficiently justified by business concerns (though the standard for that is weaker for age discrimination than other workplace discrimination.)
nailer 8y ago
I agree with you on both points, but your comment has no supporting arguments. That's not a good way to discuss anything.
- sdinsn 8y ago
  The person I replied to didn't provide any arguments or sources. I encourage him to do his own research before making ignorant, incorrect comments.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> offering it only to full-time college students would be discriminating against people who can't afford to attend college full-time That's not a protected class though. Now, in both the students of a particular year and full-time students case, you could argue race discrimination as well as age-over-40; both of these would be disparate impact rather than facial discrimination, of course. Race might be an easier case to make, because age-over-40 has a lower bar for business justification of disparate impact.