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Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
- wdewind 8y agoTLDR: Different kinds of wheat in the flour (softer, with less gluten). The soft wheat flour is sort of hard to get if you aren't a commercial baker, but you can get it on Amazon, although it's $10 instead of $2.50 like regular flour.
- spqr0a1 8y agoSoft wheat flour is easy to find. It is available as cake flour in any grocery store.
- Skunkleton 8y agoCake flour is low gluten, but also very fine milled. I don't know if that is a problem, but it might be!
- mjevans 8y agoIt might be, BUT, there are also a large number of hits from places that seem like they should actually know what they're doing and test things. biscuit cake flour Seems plausible.
- Skunkleton 8y agoGo forth and report back!
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- giardini 8y agoftfy: TLDR: you must use a soft wheat flour such as White Lily, Martha White, or Southern Biscuit. Here's a URL where they make/show biscuits made with all 3 brands: https://www.wired.com/2012/05/best-biscuit-flour/ https://www.wired.com/2012/05/best-biscuit-flour/ TLDRSQUARED: Order of best taste: Southern Biscuit flour, Martha White flour, and White Lily flour (last).
- vonseel 8y agoHard to believe an arbitrary ranking like that, white lily seems to be the most widely mentioned brand when it comes to southern flours
- giardini 8y agovonseel says>"Hard to believe an arbitrary ranking like that, white lily seems to be the most widely mentioned brand when it comes to southern flours" What's arbitrary about it? Judgment of food ingredients should be based upon taste, flavor, texture and appearance of the results rather than upon the number of Google results, say. Now _that_ would be "arbitrary".
- fencepost 8y agoCake flour is also a lower gluten flour and can be used to make lighter biscuits. It should be available just about everywhere.
- zhte415 8y agoI was also going to mention this: cake flour for it's low protein levels. In determining what you're cooking/baking, the brand matters far less than the actual type of flour. Cake / 'biscuits' (my idea of a biscuit is a solid thing to dip in tea, how British of me, but anyway) flour: about 8-9g of protein per 100 grams of flour. All-purpose flour: 11-12 grams of protein per 100 grams of flour. Bread flour: 13-14 grams of protein per 100 grams of flour. 'Pastas' vary a lot. Italian-style uses high-protein durum wheat, which is about 14g/100g. On the opposite end, Chinese jiaozi (steamed/boiled dumplings) use low-protein content (8-9g/100g) to give a very smooth texture. I'm curious if flour in the US is sold with such nutritional labeling: protein, carbohydrate, fat, salt, etc, measurements per standardised measure (in the EU and much of the world, this is per 100g)?
- solatic 8y agoMakes you wonder why we don't sell flour by protein content. Meaning, instead of "cake flour", sell "flour, 6% by wheat protein, good for cakes." Maybe flour producers ought to have to label protein content on the label (even in small text), so that it's easier to find the right flour for recipes.
- zhte415 8y agoSo this isn't done? Wow.
- elithrar 8y agoKing Arthur, a reasonably popular brand (sold at Safeway, etc) here in the US does indeed show the % protein on the packaging: https://www.kingarthurflour.com/products/signature-flours/ https://www.kingarthurflour.com/products/signature-flours/ Most products also show this on the nutritional label.
- chiph 8y agoWhen I lived in Austin I tried several times to make biscuits. While I love the tortillas and kolaches you can get in Central Texas, I was homesick for a good biscuit. And I never could get them to rise like they should. I tried all the different kinds of flour available (Gold Medal, the HEB "Hill Country" all-purpose flour, and so on) and none of them produced anything but hockey pucks.
- GeekyBear 8y agoBaking powder and/or baking soda need to be added to biscuit dough to make biscuits rise. Self rising flour is sold premixed with some baking powder, but I tend to add an extra half teaspoon of baking powder per cup of self rising flour when I make biscuits or pancakes with it. All purpose flour doesn't include any baking powder or baking soda.
- GeekyBear 8y agoHere's a recipe for buttermilk biscuits that includes a video showing the technique. https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/220943/chef-johns-buttermilk-biscuits/ https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/220943/chef-johns-buttermi... It's fairly close to the old school southern recipe, although lard was traditionally used in addition to butter and many recipes added a teaspoon of sugar and a quarter teaspoon of baking soda. You can add a couple of teaspoons of bacon grease with your buttermilk to get closer to the traditional recipe.
- beauzero 8y agoThe lard from traditional "lard" hogs that most of those old recipes were written towards is not the same chemical composition of lard rendered from today's meat hogs. Not a knock against your recommendation of bacon grease...lard hog lard was healthier and had a lower melting point.
- JasonKidwell 8y agoTerrific article
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- sys_64738 8y agoNote that the are not cookies which British-English refers to as ‘biscuits’. These are what brits would call scones.
- 121789 8y agosimilar to scones, but they have a much different consistency. generally softer and more moist
- __abadams__ 8y agoWhat Americans call scones are entirely unlike a British scone. A British scone is closest to an American biscuit.
- arethuza 8y agoAnd add to the confusion Scone is also a place in Scotland of some historical significance (not for baking though).
- NeedMoreTea 8y agoTo add further confusion to the mix, we reserve cookies for a specific type of biscuit in Britain. They're only the slightly chewy, rather than crisp crunchy biscuits. :)
- rapsey 8y agoWatching the great british bakeoff I am constantly amazed at the variety of baking recipes brits have.
- rs23296008n1 8y agoThe article confused me at first because of this. I saw a scone not a biscuit. I make chocolate biscuits on regular basis - this fact alone would have horrified some and delighted others.
- trelliscoded 8y agoSouthern biscuits aren't homogenous like scones are. A big part of the appeal is the interleaved layers of fat and dough which result in a flaky product. Scones are more crumbly.
- dragonne 8y agoI've heard that this is also why American baguettes are so brutally hard (even when fresh). They're supposed to be closer to crispy, not a dental hazard.
- starpilot 8y agoI've run into the opposite problem. Most grocery store baguettes I've found have been too soft, almost like hot dog buns.
- dragontamer 8y agoBaguettes are supposed to be made with high-protein wheat / bread flour. Proper Southern Biscuits are supposed to be made with low-protein flour. I'm somewhat surprised: in my grocery store, there are "cake flour", "bread flour", and "all purpose flour" in the flour section. It only took a brief search to learn the difference (and which had higher or lower protein counts). Further research (actually book: "On Cooking"), describes the uses of each flour. In effect: high-protein causes gluten formation, which is necessary for a proper "doughy" bread like Baguette, but is counter-productive for southern-style biscuits.
- nitwit005 8y agoPossibly, but people are pretty aware of the flour difference. Even back in the 60s Julia Child mentioned it in her cookbook (Relevant TV episode: https://youtu.be/9iH3hjDUhWw https://youtu.be/9iH3hjDUhWw) I suspect the real difference is in the customers. I've heard people arguing over which bagels or donuts are superior, but I've never heard such a conversation for baguettes.
- barrow-rider 8y agoI suspect that's mostly due to par baking, since a lot, arguably most, of the grocery store baguettes are pre-made, par baked, and shipped frozen. They're then baked again in the store, which often leaves them soft and chewy or rock hard, depending on how they're baked a 2nd time around. Lots of dough conditioners are also common, which helps make them soft. Often too soft, in fact, so they overcook them.
- ksherlock 8y agoI was slightly dubious (what sort of monster would use bread flour to make a biscuit?) so I investigated further. King Arthur all purpose flour is made from hard wheat (as is their bread flour). BUT their self-rising flour is made from soft wheat.
- grendelt 8y agoKing Arthur is what my wife, mom and grandmother use. (We're in Houston area)
- vonseel 8y agoA few years ago I spent some time learning to make breads and similar baking. Hobbyist level stuff. King Arthur was recommended brand. I have made biscuits once but found it difficult to get them light and airy. It wouldn’t surprise me if the White Lily brand is just phenomenally better for biscuits, for some reason related to the plants used or production process.
- m4r35n357 8y agoI think you mean skeptical, but correct me if I'm wrong!
- iambateman 8y agoAn aside...they quote Sarah Simmons in the article. She’s a restauranteur in my city (Columbia, S.C.) and has done amazing things for the city’s food scene in the last couple years.
- DaveInTucson 8y agoOr you could alter the recipe. I've made baking powder biscuits any number of times (flour, salt, baking powder, milk, and butter) with very serviceable results.
- thrower123 8y agoI've always had good results just using the recipe from the back of the Clabber Girl bakung powder tin. I've found making fluffy biscuits has more to do with how you cut in the butter and work the dough than much else.
- modernerd 8y agoI just wish Most of America would stop calling them biscuits. https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/scones-and-jizz https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/scones-and-jizz
- PhasmaFelis 8y agoOkay, but the Brits have systematically forgotten to pronounce the letter "H" in front of words except when it comes in front of "herbs", of all things. I dunno if we can trust you guys on matters of language!
- modernerd 8y agoThe only time most Brits drop our Hs now is when doing an impression of an American doing an impression of John Lennon.
- simonbarker87 8y agoPerhaps in parts of Yorkshire otherwise I’m really struggling to think of what words I drop the H from. Americans saying ‘erbs confused me for years.
- benj111 8y agoHey, I'm from Yorkshire and I don't pronounce any aitches, you stole the 'erb thing from us. The non aitch pronunciation thing isn't common though, unless your only experience of English is the new Dr Who.
- black-tea 8y agoWe pronounce all of our H's including herb, hotel, hospital and any other word of French origin. It's Americans that bizarrely become French on matters of cuisine such as 'erbs and "bleu" cheese. If only the food itself was more like the French, eh? It's important to note that when pronouncing the letter H itself it does not begin with an H. Pronouncing it like "haitch" will make you sound uneducated in Britain.
- vinay427 8y ago
- 2trill2spill 8y agoUse buttermilk, use self rising flour, or make your own, or use cake flour. Use aluminum free baking powder(If making your own self rising flour) and don't overwork the dough and make sure its cold as well as whatever fat you use(Shortening, Butter, Lard, etc), and you should end up with delicious biscuits.
- benj111 8y agoSo tldr is most US flour is bread flour, but you want plain flour for biscuits(scones). First question that arises. I've never come across an US derived recipe that uses bread flour. Am I using the wrong flour when I make cobbler or 'cookies'(as in the soft bake chocolate chip kind)? The second. Do you put jam and clotted cream on your bicuits(scones)? And in what order?
- djur 8y agoFirst: most common baking recipes use all-purpose flour, which is around 10% protein. This type of flour is widely available and is best for most cookies, quick breads, some types of cake, pancakes, waffles, etc. It's also acceptable for enriched bread doughs (because gluten development is going to be inhibited anyway) and for fatty/laminated doughs like typical pie crust or puff pastry (for basically the same reason). Bread flour is 14-16%. It will be explicitly called for if necessary. It's more of a specialty product, but it's often available in grocery stores. You'll mostly find it in more 'artisan' bread recipes, especially lean European-style breads like baguettes, ciabatta, etc. Works fine for enriched bread as well -- probably better, but not so much that I'd run out and buy it if I was out if I had AP flour on hand. Useless/counterproductive in basically everything but bread. Cake flour is a low-protein (8% or less) flour that is more finely milled and is usually bleached. It's suitable for cakes and for biscuits of the Southern variety. Finally, self-rising flour is usually an all-purpose flour that has baking powder (chemical leavening) mixed in. This makes it more convenient to use for a lot of common American baked goods -- pancakes, waffles, and biscuits, in particular. But it also is unnecessary/harmful if you're using a recipe that doesn't call for baking powder. ('Pancake mix' is similar, but it also contains baking soda and sugar. Just add milk and eggs.) That was long, sorry. Regarding your second question: jam is a common topping for biscuits, but clotted cream is not a commonplace food in the US. (More's the pity.) One would usually butter a biscuit before adding jam. Or honey, if you're me. Or sausage gravy.
- benj111 8y agoAh ok. The article read as if high protein (bread) flour was the default in the US. Checking my plain and sr flour, protein content is 9% and 8.9% so seemingly a bit closer to your cake flour. Sponge flour is a thing here but I think its just finely ground, and not very common. So that would suggest a 20%/80% mix of bread and plain flour would get closer to your AP flour. I assume all this is because the American climate is better for producing high protein wheat? I know the Chorleywood method was developed to make bread with low protein flour, because that is what was commonly produced in the UK. Bread flour was imported from Canada, and so was in short supply post war. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process
- jillesvangurp 8y agoI moved to Germany ten years ago. One of the nice things in this country is that they have a numbering system for classifying flour and they have lots of different varieties that are available in most supermarkets. A few years ago I got into making pizza's from scratch and sort of did a deep dive into what these numbers mean and in the process figured out what to look for in flour. In the case of a pizza you want finely milled white flour with lots of protein. That means in the numbering system the Germans have you don't want to go too high. The numbers refer to dry ashes (mostly minerals) that remain after burning a certain amount of flour. Dark breads tend to have higher numbers. The darker the higher. Germans really love their dark breads. Forget about making pizza with whole wheat flour or rye based flours. So, for pizza you want to go low. But you should not go too low either because that means you have cake flour which has less protein. You need protein to form gluten and you need gluten to get a nice stretchy dough. Crumbly pizzas are not a thing. So, that narrowed it down substantially. German supermarkets generally carry at least 3 different types of white flower: two regular flours with 405 and 550. And a spelt flower with the number 630. The 550 and 630 flours look very similar and they have similar protein content. The 405 has a lower content and is not really great for bread. I mostly use the 630 but have also used the 550. Technically the latter is probably closer to what an Italian would consider acceptable. What is sold in the US as all purpose flour is highly processed stuff (bleaching is a thing) that has medium protein content and is relatively low in nutritional value. The problem is with the "all purpose" part. That means it must have some protein, otherwise it would be useless for things that require that. Probably it is not super high either otherwise it would be useless for making cakes or indeed biscuits. It's a compromise in other words. Optimized for people that are mostly clueless about this stuff trying to make things like pancakes, muffins, waffels, and other staples of US cuisine.
- Pica_soO 8y agoFlour is a natural product, that means the "Fallzahl" (A gluten test, where a rod is sinking into a dough over a given time) is differing by the harvest. So what happens to get a industrial standardized product every year, even when it was a bad year (to wet at harvest e.g) is that flours from different locations are blended together - and additives like ascorbin accid (aspirin) is added. Its just, that though the mineralic quantities might be the same- the content still might be different, as in slightly changing by the harvest and mill date.
- tokyodude 8y agoIf you live in Tokyo the baking goods chain, Tomiz, probably has at least 80 kinds of flour depending on what you're trying to bake.
- pg_bot 8y agoInstead of going to Amazon, you should see if the manufacturer has an online store. It's usually significantly cheaper. https://onlinestore.smucker.com/display_category.cfm?cat_id=63&prbrand=10 https://onlinestore.smucker.com/display_category.cfm?cat_id=...