3 ms·

A whole lot of factors are better now than they've ever been, and that's genuinely wonderful and cause for optimism. It's naive to therefore ignore all other f

A whole lot of factors are better now than they've ever been, and that's genuinely wonderful and cause for optimism. It's naive to therefore ignore all other factors. The great strides we're making in access to food and clean water and medical care won't stop unchecked global warming from devastating human civilization. It's not just a matter of rising sea levels; if things continue apace, large parts of the equator will be too hot for humans to survive by the end of this century, and hundreds of millions of climate refugees will be seeking sanctuary somewhere, anywhere. Acknowledge our successes and keep fighting.

nonbel 8y ago
>"The great strides we're making in access to food and clean water and medical care won't stop unchecked global warming from devastating human civilization. It's not just a matter of rising sea levels; if things continue apace, large parts of the equator will be too hot for humans to survive by the end of this century, and hundreds of millions of climate refugees will be seeking sanctuary somewhere, anywhere." Do you realize you are just like one of the crazy dudes yelling about doomsday on the corner? Just because you are online doesn't make it any more convincing, actually it makes it less convincing. I assume you are repeating similar stuff over and over, so you should at least have some sources for each claim you include in these posts. EDIT: And I don't mean this in a non-constructive way. There are a few topics where I have found myself making the same arguments over and over online (measles, gene "editing", NHST) and so have saved a list of citations and quotes from them that resulted from my research into the topic. It can all be done quite informally and is not at all a hassle.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  All right! https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/india-climate-change-uninhabitable/ https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/india-climate-chang... https://qz.com/india/1049730/heatwaves-could-turn-parts-of-india-and-pakistan-uninhabitable-by-the-end-of-the-century/ https://qz.com/india/1049730/heatwaves-could-turn-parts-of-i... https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/07/africa/sudan-climate-change/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/07/africa/sudan-climate-change/i... I'm curious why you felt that such a hostile response was justified. You could have just said "I'd like to see a source for that" and I would happily have provided. Did you really think I was just making up lies, and would slink away in defeat when challenged?
  - nonbel 8y ago
    > "All right!" It isnt exceptional to ask for a source, no need for sarcasm. > "I'm curious why you felt that such a hostile response was justified. You could have just said "I'd like to see a source for that" and I would happily have provided." There was nothing hostile about it, just facts. Making those posts without sources is worse than useless if your goal is really to convince people you are correct. > "Did you really think I was just making up lies, and would slink away in defeat when challenged?" No, I wanted to see where you were getting these ideas. Now I know... I can tell right away that none of those sources are going to contain enough info to really tell how those conclusions were drawn but nevertheless, can you extract the most relevant quotes from each and attach to your claims? I mean if you really want to convince people, don't give them secondary sources and make them dig into the primary sources. Go get the direct quotes from the research literature or researchers involved yourself. BTW, I have never had the experience of journalists being able to accurately describe anything I am an expert about.
    - albedoa 8y ago
      It isnt exceptional to ask for a source, no need for sarcasm. It is exceptional to expect or require sources for well-known ideas to be attached to every comment that alludes to or evokes them. None of us needed sources to understand the point that the OP was making. can you extract the most relevant quotes from each and attach to your claims? The trend here is that it will not be good enough for you. You asked for sources and got them. Now you are expanding your request. What's next in your list of demands after he extracts the most relevant quotes from each? I'm baffled that you have made it this guy's job to hunt down and feed you primary sources because he wrote a comment that assumes some baseline knowledge.
      - nonbel 8y ago
        >"The trend here is that it will not be good enough for you. You asked for sources and got them. Now you are expanding your request. What's next in your list of demands after he extracts the most relevant quotes from each?" I said, "at least" have sources. That is like the bare minimum. Here is a post I made earlier today that meets my standards: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18522479 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18522479 You can find many posts in my history that have a similar format.
- DennisP 8y ago
  It's not hard to find sources. For example: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-countries-that-will-be-so-hot-by-2100-humans-won-t-be-able-to-go-outside-a6710121.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-countries-tha... http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-... A great book on the effects of climate change is Six Degrees by Mark Lynas, who read 3000 peer-reviewed papers on the effects of climate change and summarized them, one chapter per degree, with extensive references. One reason we know what to expect is that the Earth has gone through warming cycles before and we can see what happened in the geological evidence. A good presentation of that evidence is in Hansen's Storms of My Grandchildren.
  - nonbel 8y ago
    I mean something like this. It seems like just one person needs to do it, then it could be boilerplate since I see similar posts all over the place: > "The great strides we're making in access to food and clean water and medical care" -- What evidence is there for great strides being made? -- Regarding medical "care", there is an implication that care is a good thing. How well is this "care" translating to health, rather than putting people on more pills and causing an obesity crisis? > "[Improved access to food, clean water, and medical care] won't stop unchecked global warming from devastating human civilization. -- Why couldn't it? I have often heard the argument that improved standard of living leads to lower birthrates. > "It's not just a matter of rising sea levels" -- What evidence is there for rising sea levels? I have heard they were rising before humans started pumping CO2 into the atmosphere. > "if things continue apace, -- Why should we expect climate change to continue apace? Looking at the vostok ice core data it looks like there is some negative feedback that leads to a glacial period once it gets too hot. In fact it looks like we are due for one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core#/media/File:Vostok_Petit_data.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core#/media/File:Vostok_Pe... -- There is also the grand solar minimum we may be due for as well... > "large parts of the equator will be too hot for humans to survive" -- Needs source: If humans can find ways to survive in antarctica, submarines, and outer space I doubt this true. > "By the end of this century, and hundreds of millions of climate refugees will be seeking sanctuary somewhere, anywhere." -- Why, exactly? Are they incapable of planning ahead or building air conditioned structures? Does this assume some sort of energy crisis?

nonbel 8y ago

>"The great strides we're making in access to food and clean water and medical care won't stop unchecked global warming from devastating human civilization. It's not just a matter of rising sea levels; if things continue apace, large parts of the equator will be too hot for humans to survive by the end of this century, and hundreds of millions of climate refugees will be seeking sanctuary somewhere, anywhere." Do you realize you are just like one of the crazy dudes yelling about doomsday on the corner? Just because you are online doesn't make it any more convincing, actually it makes it less convincing. I assume you are repeating similar stuff over and over, so you should at least have some sources for each claim you include in these posts. EDIT: And I don't mean this in a non-constructive way. There are a few topics where I have found myself making the same arguments over and over online (measles, gene "editing", NHST) and so have saved a list of citations and quotes from them that resulted from my research into the topic. It can all be done quite informally and is not at all a hassle.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago
All right! https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/india-climate-change-uninhabitable/ https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/india-climate-chang... https://qz.com/india/1049730/heatwaves-could-turn-parts-of-india-and-pakistan-uninhabitable-by-the-end-of-the-century/ https://qz.com/india/1049730/heatwaves-could-turn-parts-of-i... https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/07/africa/sudan-climate-change/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/07/africa/sudan-climate-change/i... I'm curious why you felt that such a hostile response was justified. You could have just said "I'd like to see a source for that" and I would happily have provided. Did you really think I was just making up lies, and would slink away in defeat when challenged?
- nonbel 8y ago
  > "All right!" It isnt exceptional to ask for a source, no need for sarcasm. > "I'm curious why you felt that such a hostile response was justified. You could have just said "I'd like to see a source for that" and I would happily have provided." There was nothing hostile about it, just facts. Making those posts without sources is worse than useless if your goal is really to convince people you are correct. > "Did you really think I was just making up lies, and would slink away in defeat when challenged?" No, I wanted to see where you were getting these ideas. Now I know... I can tell right away that none of those sources are going to contain enough info to really tell how those conclusions were drawn but nevertheless, can you extract the most relevant quotes from each and attach to your claims? I mean if you really want to convince people, don't give them secondary sources and make them dig into the primary sources. Go get the direct quotes from the research literature or researchers involved yourself. BTW, I have never had the experience of journalists being able to accurately describe anything I am an expert about.
  - albedoa 8y ago
    It isnt exceptional to ask for a source, no need for sarcasm. It is exceptional to expect or require sources for well-known ideas to be attached to every comment that alludes to or evokes them. None of us needed sources to understand the point that the OP was making. can you extract the most relevant quotes from each and attach to your claims? The trend here is that it will not be good enough for you. You asked for sources and got them. Now you are expanding your request. What's next in your list of demands after he extracts the most relevant quotes from each? I'm baffled that you have made it this guy's job to hunt down and feed you primary sources because he wrote a comment that assumes some baseline knowledge.
    - nonbel 8y ago
      >"The trend here is that it will not be good enough for you. You asked for sources and got them. Now you are expanding your request. What's next in your list of demands after he extracts the most relevant quotes from each?" I said, "at least" have sources. That is like the bare minimum. Here is a post I made earlier today that meets my standards: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18522479 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18522479 You can find many posts in my history that have a similar format.
DennisP 8y ago
It's not hard to find sources. For example: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-countries-that-will-be-so-hot-by-2100-humans-won-t-be-able-to-go-outside-a6710121.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-countries-tha... http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-... A great book on the effects of climate change is Six Degrees by Mark Lynas, who read 3000 peer-reviewed papers on the effects of climate change and summarized them, one chapter per degree, with extensive references. One reason we know what to expect is that the Earth has gone through warming cycles before and we can see what happened in the geological evidence. A good presentation of that evidence is in Hansen's Storms of My Grandchildren.
- nonbel 8y ago
  I mean something like this. It seems like just one person needs to do it, then it could be boilerplate since I see similar posts all over the place: > "The great strides we're making in access to food and clean water and medical care" -- What evidence is there for great strides being made? -- Regarding medical "care", there is an implication that care is a good thing. How well is this "care" translating to health, rather than putting people on more pills and causing an obesity crisis? > "[Improved access to food, clean water, and medical care] won't stop unchecked global warming from devastating human civilization. -- Why couldn't it? I have often heard the argument that improved standard of living leads to lower birthrates. > "It's not just a matter of rising sea levels" -- What evidence is there for rising sea levels? I have heard they were rising before humans started pumping CO2 into the atmosphere. > "if things continue apace, -- Why should we expect climate change to continue apace? Looking at the vostok ice core data it looks like there is some negative feedback that leads to a glacial period once it gets too hot. In fact it looks like we are due for one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core#/media/File:Vostok_Petit_data.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core#/media/File:Vostok_Pe... -- There is also the grand solar minimum we may be due for as well... > "large parts of the equator will be too hot for humans to survive" -- Needs source: If humans can find ways to survive in antarctica, submarines, and outer space I doubt this true. > "By the end of this century, and hundreds of millions of climate refugees will be seeking sanctuary somewhere, anywhere." -- Why, exactly? Are they incapable of planning ahead or building air conditioned structures? Does this assume some sort of energy crisis?