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30k euro per year here. I am now finishing my 4th year abroad. It is easier than you think even if you do not stop unnecessary expenses. I believe that univers

30k euro per year here. I am now finishing my 4th year abroad. It is easier than you think even if you do not stop unnecessary expenses. I believe that universities should not teach marketable skills only because these are what some employers like - instead they should teach skills that are not trivial to learn by yourself (some of which might be marketable). If you have already learned Python in uni for example there is no reason why they should also teach you C or Java just because employers like these languages as once you learn one of them learning the others will be trivial. Teaching type theory, formal proofs, and other stuff about theoretical CS however sounds like a good idea as learning these alone will probably be difficult for students that do not have a good background in functional programming. As for "widening" your mind, I don't think that I would be interested in "widening" my mind on anything not relevant to CS. I would avoid any degree that claimed that it tried to do that.

em-bee 8y ago
actually, the most important thing to teach, which not all schools are teaching is "how to learn" for example teaching multiple programming languages has the benefit of learning how the languages are related to each other. a student that learned several languages over the course of their studies will be much better at picking up yet another language when they start working. in my university each different programming concept was taught with a different language. object orientation with modula, functional programming with scheme, etc. we pretty much learned a new language every term. and the point was not to learn those languages. that just happened as an aside. but that aside produced the benefit of making the students comfortable working with whatever language the job might require.
- AnaniasAnanas 8y ago
  I probably did not express myself clear enough in my previous post. I certainly support teaching different languages as long as they are very different - such as Prolog + Haskell + C for example. I simply do not see the point of teaching multiple language that are basically the same (C++ + Java + C# + Python for example).
  - em-bee 8y ago
    yes, that's a good point. but the benefit holds even if the languages are basically the same, because students don't know that until they learned a few of them.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Wouldn’t it be better instead of learning a ton of languages, to learn how to “engineer” systems? By that I mean, learning how to build and manage complex projects?
  - em-bee 8y ago
    learning how to build and manage complex projects doesn't conflict with learning new languages along the way. unless you work on a project that takes longer than 6 months you can still start new projects with another new language each term
    - scarface74 8y ago
      And this is at the opposite end of the spectrum.... On one hand, you have computer science majors who know theory but can’t code their way out of a wet paper bag. On the other hand, you have the computer science majors who can do leetCode in their sleep but don’t have the stamina to see a project to 100% completion and easily get distracted by the oooh shiny. And let’s not forget the computer science majors who can code and know theory but don’t know anything about business or how to communicate and deal with large organizations. Out of those three - I speak from experience in two. I always knew how to “program” as a professional developer. I was a hobbyist before going to college.
      - AnaniasAnanas 8y ago
        > On one hand, you have computer science majors who know theory but can’t code their way out of a wet paper bag. If their plan in life is to do research on theoretical CS, does it matter? That being said, I doubt that these are that many of them considering that most CS degrees focus on programming. > And let’s not forget the computer science majors who can code and know theory but don’t know anything about business or how to communicate and deal with large organizations. They have a CS degree, not a business or management one.
        scarface74 8y ago

em-bee 8y ago

actually, the most important thing to teach, which not all schools are teaching is "how to learn" for example teaching multiple programming languages has the benefit of learning how the languages are related to each other. a student that learned several languages over the course of their studies will be much better at picking up yet another language when they start working. in my university each different programming concept was taught with a different language. object orientation with modula, functional programming with scheme, etc. we pretty much learned a new language every term. and the point was not to learn those languages. that just happened as an aside. but that aside produced the benefit of making the students comfortable working with whatever language the job might require.

AnaniasAnanas 8y ago
I probably did not express myself clear enough in my previous post. I certainly support teaching different languages as long as they are very different - such as Prolog + Haskell + C for example. I simply do not see the point of teaching multiple language that are basically the same (C++ + Java + C# + Python for example).
- em-bee 8y ago
  yes, that's a good point. but the benefit holds even if the languages are basically the same, because students don't know that until they learned a few of them.
scarface74 8y ago
Wouldn’t it be better instead of learning a ton of languages, to learn how to “engineer” systems? By that I mean, learning how to build and manage complex projects?
- em-bee 8y ago
  learning how to build and manage complex projects doesn't conflict with learning new languages along the way. unless you work on a project that takes longer than 6 months you can still start new projects with another new language each term
  - scarface74 8y ago
    And this is at the opposite end of the spectrum.... On one hand, you have computer science majors who know theory but can’t code their way out of a wet paper bag. On the other hand, you have the computer science majors who can do leetCode in their sleep but don’t have the stamina to see a project to 100% completion and easily get distracted by the oooh shiny. And let’s not forget the computer science majors who can code and know theory but don’t know anything about business or how to communicate and deal with large organizations. Out of those three - I speak from experience in two. I always knew how to “program” as a professional developer. I was a hobbyist before going to college.
    - AnaniasAnanas 8y ago
      > On one hand, you have computer science majors who know theory but can’t code their way out of a wet paper bag. If their plan in life is to do research on theoretical CS, does it matter? That being said, I doubt that these are that many of them considering that most CS degrees focus on programming. > And let’s not forget the computer science majors who can code and know theory but don’t know anything about business or how to communicate and deal with large organizations. They have a CS degree, not a business or management one.
      - scarface74 8y ago