4 ms·

I don’t know how to write this without being too defensive, but the place where you think other peoples’ opinions come from seems incorrect and is borderline in

I don’t know how to write this without being too defensive, but the place where you think other peoples’ opinions come from seems incorrect and is borderline insulting, mainly bringing them down to prop yourself up. Maybe it’s not your intent.

jhowell 8y ago
What's insulting about saying someone from a middle class background (presumably in the United States) is "not as familiar with the depths of extreme poverty or working class families as I am." To me, this sounds like a shared opinion based on personal experience.
- isoskeles 8y ago
  It was said in a different direction. People who hold political opinion X must be from this background because they don’t understand the issue like I do. I’m from a working class background and arrived at a different conclusion in my own experience. But I get lumped in with people raised upper middle class just because I couldn’t possibly have such opinions. Granted, this is why I try not to be defensive about it: who I am doesn’t really matter (nor should it for anyone else) when we’re discussing ideas.
  - throwaway2048 8y ago
    I don't think there is much dispute that developers tend to come from upper middle class families, which is exactly what the parent said. He didn't say they must come from there.
    - sheepmullet 8y ago
      > I don't think there is much dispute that developers tend to come from upper middle class families, which is exactly what the parent said. I’d love to see some data. Of course if you work at the kind of companies that only hire people with a top CS degree then you might be led to believe that. In my experience though it’s not the case. The majority of people in my office grew up lower middle class.
      - sharemywin 8y ago
        which still isn't extreme poverty.
        sheepmullet 8y ago
        The OP was talking about working class families. That’s a far cry from extreme poverty. My parents were cleaners and although we were often tight on money we were miles away from extreme poverty.
  - verbify 8y ago
    OP wasn't talking about a working class background - they were talking about extreme poverty. There are obvious differences. Can you confirm whether you grew up in an environment of extreme poverty?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - fzeroracer 8y ago
    Can you define 'working class family'? Because for me, my definition of working class was living in deep poverty as the result of my family working an incredibly hard yet unrewarding career path that physically and mentally destroyed them. As I bring up often, my parents were fishermen. They could hardly afford a home and hardly afford to put food on the table or the immense medical bills we were saddled with.
    - threatofrain 8y ago
      Why is working class defined by this specific definition of deep poverty? And why do we need that term if we can just say deep poverty?
bdcravens 8y ago
I agree with what you're saying about the tone of fzeroracer's comment, but as someone who comes from extreme poverty, there's a lot of truth there. There's a lot to poverty that can't be explained in a tweet storm or a TED talk, and a lot of what I know to be very real causes of poverty are often dismissed as political narratives.
fzeroracer 8y ago
If you find something as benign as me bringing up my anecdotal experiences so far 'borderline insulting', then you remind me a lot of my coworkers I've had to deal with in the past. Bringing up my past and my opinions was enough to get them riled up because they simply could not understand where I came from or the things I had to deal with due to poverty. I don't know how else you think I should explain this other than the fact that we had two very different circumstances growing up.

jhowell 8y ago

What's insulting about saying someone from a middle class background (presumably in the United States) is "not as familiar with the depths of extreme poverty or working class families as I am." To me, this sounds like a shared opinion based on personal experience.

isoskeles 8y ago
It was said in a different direction. People who hold political opinion X must be from this background because they don’t understand the issue like I do. I’m from a working class background and arrived at a different conclusion in my own experience. But I get lumped in with people raised upper middle class just because I couldn’t possibly have such opinions. Granted, this is why I try not to be defensive about it: who I am doesn’t really matter (nor should it for anyone else) when we’re discussing ideas.
- throwaway2048 8y ago
  I don't think there is much dispute that developers tend to come from upper middle class families, which is exactly what the parent said. He didn't say they must come from there.
  - sheepmullet 8y ago
    > I don't think there is much dispute that developers tend to come from upper middle class families, which is exactly what the parent said. I’d love to see some data. Of course if you work at the kind of companies that only hire people with a top CS degree then you might be led to believe that. In my experience though it’s not the case. The majority of people in my office grew up lower middle class.
    - sharemywin 8y ago
      which still isn't extreme poverty.
      - sheepmullet 8y ago
        The OP was talking about working class families. That’s a far cry from extreme poverty. My parents were cleaners and although we were often tight on money we were miles away from extreme poverty.
- verbify 8y ago
  OP wasn't talking about a working class background - they were talking about extreme poverty. There are obvious differences. Can you confirm whether you grew up in an environment of extreme poverty?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- fzeroracer 8y ago
  Can you define 'working class family'? Because for me, my definition of working class was living in deep poverty as the result of my family working an incredibly hard yet unrewarding career path that physically and mentally destroyed them. As I bring up often, my parents were fishermen. They could hardly afford a home and hardly afford to put food on the table or the immense medical bills we were saddled with.
  - threatofrain 8y ago
    Why is working class defined by this specific definition of deep poverty? And why do we need that term if we can just say deep poverty?

bdcravens 8y ago

I agree with what you're saying about the tone of fzeroracer's comment, but as someone who comes from extreme poverty, there's a lot of truth there. There's a lot to poverty that can't be explained in a tweet storm or a TED talk, and a lot of what I know to be very real causes of poverty are often dismissed as political narratives.

fzeroracer 8y ago

If you find something as benign as me bringing up my anecdotal experiences so far 'borderline insulting', then you remind me a lot of my coworkers I've had to deal with in the past. Bringing up my past and my opinions was enough to get them riled up because they simply could not understand where I came from or the things I had to deal with due to poverty. I don't know how else you think I should explain this other than the fact that we had two very different circumstances growing up.