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I consider myself a successful software developer who enjoys his work. I took one single programming class as an undergrad and it sucked. Everything else was li

I consider myself a successful software developer who enjoys his work. I took one single programming class as an undergrad and it sucked. Everything else was literature, philosophy, art, with some science mixed in when I could. I think that decision served me well. It also made me less appealing to people hiring for boring positions and much more appealing to those trying to find smart weirdos who thought differently. My first real college programming job was with people who specifically did not hire out of the CS department. It was awesome!

mroche 8y ago
> My first real college programming job was with people who specifically did not hire out of the CS department. Not going to lie, that sounds incredibly counter-intuitive. However, as long as the people have the right skills or mindset I don’t see the issue. There may be a lacking in deeper underlying systems knowledge, though.
- docbrown 8y ago
  >However, as long as the people have the right skills or mindset I don’t see the issue. That is exactly what they’re looking for, regardless of degree type. Without digging up all the numbers, soft skills in the hiring process are important to a great deal——as long as that person is able to understand the on-the-job training you’re going to give them. You can have person A and B interviewing for a PM position. Person A graduated from CS dept, 3.9cGPA, introvert, no experience. Person B graduated from Literature dept, 3.8cGPA, study abroad, sociable, 5 years work experience with deadlines. In my opinion, I would take person B over A. I’ll tell you why, though. Person A has (1) shown they are able to understand different cultures and environments—as the company may be Fortune 500 or non-profit, the workforce can be diverse. (2) they have shown they can take responsibility and (3) be willing to engage with others, coworkers in particular and (4) is willing to get out of their comfort zone by wandering into CS. Person B will bring me (1) experience but they may not be able to communicate effectively with coworkers, managers, customers, etc. due to their personality. They may know how to fix a problem but (2) they’re personality makes them get confrontational when you say there’s a better way than their way. In the end, the amount of worry I’d have with how they’d work with my other employees is much greater than the time it’ll take me to take an apprentice and teach them how and what I want and need them to learn.
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    uh I think you swapped A and B in the last 2 paras.
  - selimthegrim 8y ago
    I think you need a switcheroo.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - ams6110 8y ago
    The five years of work experience is going to override almost everything else about either candidate.
  - AnaniasAnanas 8y ago
    Isn't assuming that just because person A is not too social (by not having many friends, not going to parties, and being shy maybe) that he will attack anyone who disagrees with them and that he will not be able to communicate effectively on job-related issues nothing but prejudice?
- chasing 8y ago
  This is not true for all jobs, but for some jobs it’s much easier to find people who are smart, creative, and passionate and teach them some programming skills than the other way around. Also, I had been teaching myself coding since high school, so I had skills.
- ams6110 8y ago
  A computer science degree really doesn't teach any deep systems knowledge. It's a rather broad survey of operating systems, data structures, algorithms, machine architectures, and programming languages. An undergrad with a CS degree will have a lot to learn about developing software. A CS degree is probably most useful to identify people who are interested enough in computers and software to have stuck with it for 4 years.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    It's completely possible to get a deep systems knowledge along with your computer science degree, but it's by no means a requirement.

mroche 8y ago

> My first real college programming job was with people who specifically did not hire out of the CS department. Not going to lie, that sounds incredibly counter-intuitive. However, as long as the people have the right skills or mindset I don’t see the issue. There may be a lacking in deeper underlying systems knowledge, though.

docbrown 8y ago
>However, as long as the people have the right skills or mindset I don’t see the issue. That is exactly what they’re looking for, regardless of degree type. Without digging up all the numbers, soft skills in the hiring process are important to a great deal——as long as that person is able to understand the on-the-job training you’re going to give them. You can have person A and B interviewing for a PM position. Person A graduated from CS dept, 3.9cGPA, introvert, no experience. Person B graduated from Literature dept, 3.8cGPA, study abroad, sociable, 5 years work experience with deadlines. In my opinion, I would take person B over A. I’ll tell you why, though. Person A has (1) shown they are able to understand different cultures and environments—as the company may be Fortune 500 or non-profit, the workforce can be diverse. (2) they have shown they can take responsibility and (3) be willing to engage with others, coworkers in particular and (4) is willing to get out of their comfort zone by wandering into CS. Person B will bring me (1) experience but they may not be able to communicate effectively with coworkers, managers, customers, etc. due to their personality. They may know how to fix a problem but (2) they’re personality makes them get confrontational when you say there’s a better way than their way. In the end, the amount of worry I’d have with how they’d work with my other employees is much greater than the time it’ll take me to take an apprentice and teach them how and what I want and need them to learn.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  uh I think you swapped A and B in the last 2 paras.
- selimthegrim 8y ago
  I think you need a switcheroo.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- ams6110 8y ago
  The five years of work experience is going to override almost everything else about either candidate.
- AnaniasAnanas 8y ago
  Isn't assuming that just because person A is not too social (by not having many friends, not going to parties, and being shy maybe) that he will attack anyone who disagrees with them and that he will not be able to communicate effectively on job-related issues nothing but prejudice?
chasing 8y ago
This is not true for all jobs, but for some jobs it’s much easier to find people who are smart, creative, and passionate and teach them some programming skills than the other way around. Also, I had been teaching myself coding since high school, so I had skills.
ams6110 8y ago
A computer science degree really doesn't teach any deep systems knowledge. It's a rather broad survey of operating systems, data structures, algorithms, machine architectures, and programming languages. An undergrad with a CS degree will have a lot to learn about developing software. A CS degree is probably most useful to identify people who are interested enough in computers and software to have stuck with it for 4 years.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  It's completely possible to get a deep systems knowledge along with your computer science degree, but it's by no means a requirement.