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We need to figure out how to better persuade people to get their kids vaccinated. Perhaps a mix of education targeted at families who claim these exemptions, an

We need to figure out how to better persuade people to get their kids vaccinated. Perhaps a mix of education targeted at families who claim these exemptions, and fines to represent the negative externality of their choices?

cmsj 8y ago
or just make vaccines mandatory for every child able to have them?
- krapp 8y ago
  That's a good way to ensure anti-vaxxers are both paranoid and violent.
- chris_wot 8y ago
  Actually, in Australia we prevented childcare payments for those who conscientiously object. Religious grounds aren’t accepted. It’s called “no jab, no pay”.[1] It has arrested the slide in vaccinations, and in fact increased the vaccination rate by a few percent. We also have strongly endured that groups like the Australian Vaccination Network are curtailed. They are now called the Australian Vaccination-risks Network, by court order after a statutory body the NSW HCCC pursued them. You don’t need to make vaccines mandatory, you just need to have consequences for those who refuse; and you need to go after groups who peddle in lies. https://beta.health.gov.au/file/1126/download?token=nF1qzHkN https://beta.health.gov.au/file/1126/download?token=nF1qzHkN
  - conanbatt 8y ago
    Refusing childcare payments is just another flavor of mandatory, enforced through the tax system. A responsbility approach would be a health insurance on third parties.
    - chris_wot 8y ago
      That is hardly responsible. We have free health care in Australia, and landing someone in hospital but paying for it because of the actions of another party is neither desirable nor sensible.
      - conanbatt 8y ago
        Why wouldn't it be responsible?
FlyMoreRockets 8y ago
Only vaccinate the kids you want to keep.
conanbatt 8y ago
What better way to persuade than to pay for it.
- cmurf 8y ago
  Most children are covered for varicella vaccination through Medicaid or parent's insurance, as well as all the ACIP recommended vaccinations.
  - conanbatt 8y ago
    I mean on top of the cost. Just reward people for getting the vaccination. Normally you gotta persuade people or pay them for the inconvenience to get them to do something for you.
    - eesmith 8y ago
      People don't work that way. For example, I suspect some will decide to hold out for higher money. http://freakonomics.com/2013/10/23/what-makes-people-do-what-they-do/ http://freakonomics.com/2013/10/23/what-makes-people-do-what... gives a well-known account of how monetary incentives don't always work, in that case with late fees for parents who are tardy picking up their children from day care. > The picture that emerged from this experiment, co-authored with Aldo Rustichini, was that parents had a whole set of non-financial incentives for being on time – incentives that were completely incompatible with money. Like, for example, avoiding the guilt of inconveniencing the day care workers. As soon as parents had the option to pay a small fine and avoid that guilt, they took it en masse.
      - conanbatt 8y ago
        > People don't work that way. For example, I suspect some will decide to hold out for higher money. Which is fine, you dont need 100% vaccination rate to get herd immunity. The value of the last people getting a vax is low. Bear in mind people already pay a price but refusing to get vaccinated in time. Also, i would be very surprised to find that the solution to "hold-outs" would be forcefully doing it to them, in almost any scenario.

cmsj 8y ago

or just make vaccines mandatory for every child able to have them?

krapp 8y ago
That's a good way to ensure anti-vaxxers are both paranoid and violent.
chris_wot 8y ago
Actually, in Australia we prevented childcare payments for those who conscientiously object. Religious grounds aren’t accepted. It’s called “no jab, no pay”.[1] It has arrested the slide in vaccinations, and in fact increased the vaccination rate by a few percent. We also have strongly endured that groups like the Australian Vaccination Network are curtailed. They are now called the Australian Vaccination-risks Network, by court order after a statutory body the NSW HCCC pursued them. You don’t need to make vaccines mandatory, you just need to have consequences for those who refuse; and you need to go after groups who peddle in lies. https://beta.health.gov.au/file/1126/download?token=nF1qzHkN https://beta.health.gov.au/file/1126/download?token=nF1qzHkN
- conanbatt 8y ago
  Refusing childcare payments is just another flavor of mandatory, enforced through the tax system. A responsbility approach would be a health insurance on third parties.
  - chris_wot 8y ago
    That is hardly responsible. We have free health care in Australia, and landing someone in hospital but paying for it because of the actions of another party is neither desirable nor sensible.
    - conanbatt 8y ago
      Why wouldn't it be responsible?

FlyMoreRockets 8y ago

Only vaccinate the kids you want to keep.

conanbatt 8y ago

What better way to persuade than to pay for it.

cmurf 8y ago
Most children are covered for varicella vaccination through Medicaid or parent's insurance, as well as all the ACIP recommended vaccinations.
- conanbatt 8y ago
  I mean on top of the cost. Just reward people for getting the vaccination. Normally you gotta persuade people or pay them for the inconvenience to get them to do something for you.
  - eesmith 8y ago
    People don't work that way. For example, I suspect some will decide to hold out for higher money. http://freakonomics.com/2013/10/23/what-makes-people-do-what-they-do/ http://freakonomics.com/2013/10/23/what-makes-people-do-what... gives a well-known account of how monetary incentives don't always work, in that case with late fees for parents who are tardy picking up their children from day care. > The picture that emerged from this experiment, co-authored with Aldo Rustichini, was that parents had a whole set of non-financial incentives for being on time – incentives that were completely incompatible with money. Like, for example, avoiding the guilt of inconveniencing the day care workers. As soon as parents had the option to pay a small fine and avoid that guilt, they took it en masse.
    - conanbatt 8y ago
      > People don't work that way. For example, I suspect some will decide to hold out for higher money. Which is fine, you dont need 100% vaccination rate to get herd immunity. The value of the last people getting a vax is low. Bear in mind people already pay a price but refusing to get vaccinated in time. Also, i would be very surprised to find that the solution to "hold-outs" would be forcefully doing it to them, in almost any scenario.