5 ms·

I feel like the adoption of HTTP/3 is going to be much much slower than HTTP/2... Besides Google Cloud do any of the major cloud providers have UDP load balance

I feel like the adoption of HTTP/3 is going to be much much slower than HTTP/2... Besides Google Cloud do any of the major cloud providers have UDP load balancers?

jgh 8y ago
I believe Akamai has implemented QUIC but I haven't heard of any other CDNs that have.
- lumisota 8y ago
  A few other CDNs have implementations, but presumably we'll see much wider adoption once it has been standardised.
- dochtman 8y ago
  Cloudflare is also already testing draft QUIC support.
- cortesoft 8y ago
  EdgeCast supports QUIC as well https://www.verizondigitalmedia.com/blog/2018/05/quic-announcement/ https://www.verizondigitalmedia.com/blog/2018/05/quic-announ...
dddddaviddddd 8y ago
As browsers adopt it I'm sure uptake will be significant given the advantages. I'm looking forward to IP roaming.
- throwaway2048 8y ago
  as a security person I'm looking forward to massive holes in IP roaming implementations.
maximilianburke 8y ago
Azure's load balancers support UDP.
chuhnk 8y ago
Disagree. There's more incentive to move considering the advantages it offers. If anything it feels like people were reluctant to adopt http2 and http3 is a bigger leap that we'll all want to move forward with.
- zamadatix 8y ago
  The challenge for http/3 will be middleboxes not endpoints. Put another way: it won't be hard to break 50% of traffic on http/3 but you will still be running 2 10 years from now if you want to reach the last 10% of users.
  - JBiserkov 8y ago
    Middleboxes will only see UDP, no? From their perspective nothing has changed? Isn’t that the whole idea?
    - Buge 8y ago
      How many middleboxes block all UDP?
      - foobiekr 8y ago
        QUIC forcing these boxes out of the network is a feature not a bug.
paulddraper 8y ago
AWS was working on UDP load balancing last year. [1] So, maybe 2021 GA. [1] https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?threadID=264282 https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?threadID=264282
tyingq 8y ago
Corporate web proxies/filters will likely lag as well. https://support.forcepoint.com/KBArticle?id=000015410 https://support.forcepoint.com/KBArticle?id=000015410
Tuna-Fish 8y ago
The protocol has been designed so that both the endpoints of a stream can seamlessly change IP addresses. This ought to make load balancing easier?
- X-Istence 8y ago
  Not unless you want to get through firewalls seamlessly. UDP "state" tracking is a thing, and if my firewall sees a UDP packet destined for it without knowing the remote IP address it's going to drop it.
  - vertex-four 8y ago
    Which is yet another reason to migrate to IPv6, which doesn’t require stateful NAT.
    - wmf 8y ago
      Although stateful connection tracking is still a best practice for IPv6 firewalls and home routers.
    - greglindahl 8y ago
      There are a ton of IPv4 firewalls and middleboxes that have stateful tracking even when NAT is not in use.
    - X-Istence 8y ago
      My firewall doesn't do NAT yet is still stateful for IPv6. Also, most firewalls on end-point devices (think built-in to the OS) are stateful firewalls.
  - bb88 8y ago
    If the client side changes it's IP address, it's a lot easier say than if the server side does. Typically because the server won't reject new UDP packets coming in from the internet. The load balancer will route any ongoing sessions with the session id, and not the ip address.
baby 8y ago
HTTP/2 works well, so adoption speed isn't that important. On the other hand, HTTP/3 is way, way faster. So there are strong incentives for big players to adopt it as fast as possible :)

I feel like the adoption of HTTP/3 is going to be much much slower than HTTP/2... Besides Google Cloud do any of the major cloud providers have UDP load balancers?

jgh 8y ago

I believe Akamai has implemented QUIC but I haven't heard of any other CDNs that have.

lumisota 8y ago
A few other CDNs have implementations, but presumably we'll see much wider adoption once it has been standardised.
dochtman 8y ago
Cloudflare is also already testing draft QUIC support.
cortesoft 8y ago
EdgeCast supports QUIC as well https://www.verizondigitalmedia.com/blog/2018/05/quic-announcement/ https://www.verizondigitalmedia.com/blog/2018/05/quic-announ...

dddddaviddddd 8y ago

As browsers adopt it I'm sure uptake will be significant given the advantages. I'm looking forward to IP roaming.

throwaway2048 8y ago
as a security person I'm looking forward to massive holes in IP roaming implementations.

maximilianburke 8y ago

Azure's load balancers support UDP.

chuhnk 8y ago

Disagree. There's more incentive to move considering the advantages it offers. If anything it feels like people were reluctant to adopt http2 and http3 is a bigger leap that we'll all want to move forward with.

zamadatix 8y ago
The challenge for http/3 will be middleboxes not endpoints. Put another way: it won't be hard to break 50% of traffic on http/3 but you will still be running 2 10 years from now if you want to reach the last 10% of users.
- JBiserkov 8y ago
  Middleboxes will only see UDP, no? From their perspective nothing has changed? Isn’t that the whole idea?
  - Buge 8y ago
    How many middleboxes block all UDP?
    - foobiekr 8y ago
      QUIC forcing these boxes out of the network is a feature not a bug.

paulddraper 8y ago

AWS was working on UDP load balancing last year. [1] So, maybe 2021 GA. [1] https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?threadID=264282 https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?threadID=264282

tyingq 8y ago

Corporate web proxies/filters will likely lag as well. https://support.forcepoint.com/KBArticle?id=000015410 https://support.forcepoint.com/KBArticle?id=000015410

Tuna-Fish 8y ago

The protocol has been designed so that both the endpoints of a stream can seamlessly change IP addresses. This ought to make load balancing easier?

X-Istence 8y ago
Not unless you want to get through firewalls seamlessly. UDP "state" tracking is a thing, and if my firewall sees a UDP packet destined for it without knowing the remote IP address it's going to drop it.
- vertex-four 8y ago
  Which is yet another reason to migrate to IPv6, which doesn’t require stateful NAT.
  - wmf 8y ago
    Although stateful connection tracking is still a best practice for IPv6 firewalls and home routers.
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    There are a ton of IPv4 firewalls and middleboxes that have stateful tracking even when NAT is not in use.
  - X-Istence 8y ago
    My firewall doesn't do NAT yet is still stateful for IPv6. Also, most firewalls on end-point devices (think built-in to the OS) are stateful firewalls.
- bb88 8y ago
  If the client side changes it's IP address, it's a lot easier say than if the server side does. Typically because the server won't reject new UDP packets coming in from the internet. The load balancer will route any ongoing sessions with the session id, and not the ip address.

baby 8y ago

HTTP/2 works well, so adoption speed isn't that important. On the other hand, HTTP/3 is way, way faster. So there are strong incentives for big players to adopt it as fast as possible :)