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How could EU law apply to a US publication? Would US law apply to EU publications? Is a representative from the EU going to show up in New York and serve Forbes

How could EU law apply to a US publication? Would US law apply to EU publications? Is a representative from the EU going to show up in New York and serve Forbes a summons? I am genuinely curious how a US publication with no legal domicile in the EU have any obligation to follow EU laws. If a California resident goes to an EU insurance website, will that EU company have to comply with California insurance advertising laws? I think that there is a lot of wishful thinking about GDPR and a lot of ignorance on how jurisdiction works, especially internationally. GDPR has no jurisdiction over companies without an EU domicile or physical presence. And EU citizens aren’t protected unless they are actually resident in the EU.

briandear 8y ago
Actually, I'm going to stand corrected.. While I stand behind the jurisdictional argument I've made per the Territorial Scope of GDPR (https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/) -- however, in this specific case, Forbes does, in fact have an EU operation -- many in fact, (https://www.forbes.cz https://www.forbes.cz) as an example. However, the question might now be -- do visitors to the Czech site have to agree to the same conditions and tracking as do visitors to the US site. If they're doing the same shenanigans on their Czech site as they are in the US, then of course, they are potentially violating GDPR. However, if the Czech site (as an EU example) IS following GDPR but the US site isn't, then there could be a strong case made that they aren't violating GDPR since the main Forbes site would clearly not be intended for EU consumption; GDPR, while applicable to the EU-side of the Forbes business, doesn't provide a blanket requirement for GDPR compliance across Forbes's non-EU properties. As far as EU citizens vs. residents, that concept ought to be clear: an EU citizen doesn't have protection of EU laws when outside of the EU just as an American banking in France isn't protected by US banking laws. The passport of a complainant isn't relevant, but their physical location. An EU resident American who is visiting the US isn't protected by EU consumer protection laws for example, during a visit to the United States.
- icebraining 8y ago
  As far as EU citizens vs. residents, that concept ought to be clear: an EU citizen doesn't have protection of EU laws when outside of the EU just as an American banking in France isn't protected by US banking laws. The passport of a complainant isn't relevant, but their physical location. Yes, that's a common point of confusion, but it's completely correct: the GDPR applies to people in the Union, not to EU citizens everywhere (for non-EU companies, that is - an EU company has to apply the same protections for every user in the world).
Normal_gaussian 8y ago
> How could EU law apply to a US publication? Via business partners, treaties, subsidiaries, sister companies, and the restriction on the freedoms of individuals from those countries. > Would US law apply to EU publications? Yes, in exactly the same way. Whether one has to worry about it relates to the dependence of the two countries on each other and their relative military might. > Is a representative from the EU going to show up in New York and serve Forbes a summons? I am genuinely curious how a US publication with no legal domicile in the EU have any obligation to follow EU laws. Each relevant body in each EU state can act independently, and they would presumably serve them a warning in any European office first, but for a US only company they would likely employ a US legal firm to deliver the letter for them. However its unlikely to be a summons, more likely a request for information followed by the penalty that is going to be imposed - there will probably be some opportunity for mediation and it could be escalated to a court. > If a California resident goes to an EU insurance website, will that EU company have to comply with California insurance advertising laws? Depends on Californias laws, but presuming the site was intentionally serving Californians then yes, it should, and would, be at risk of penalties in California. > I think that there is a lot of wishful thinking about GDPR and a lot of ignorance on how jurisdiction works, especially internationally. Undoubtedly > GDPR has no jurisdiction over companies without an EU domicile or physical presence. And EU citizens aren’t protected unless they are actually resident in the EU. The bodies that enforce the GDPR can recover their penalties by engaging any of many different legal apparatus, where they deem it appropriate (which will be rarely, if ever, as they have to convince other internal organisations to back them). It is harder, but by no means impossible, to recover money from abroad or to stop money transacting with a foreign entity. Anyone present in the EU is 'protected', residence is not required. --- Forbes media have offices in Paris, Milan, and London. They regulary engage in both high value financial transactions and on the ground reporting in the EU. If they were prevented from operating inside the EU it would cause them severe operational issues, and their place as an authority in Western media would disappear overnight.
maeln 8y ago
> Would US law apply to EU publications? Yes. For example Bank in the EU (or at least in France) have to report to the US financial organization if a US citizen open a bank account here.

briandear 8y ago

Actually, I'm going to stand corrected.. While I stand behind the jurisdictional argument I've made per the Territorial Scope of GDPR (https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/) -- however, in this specific case, Forbes does, in fact have an EU operation -- many in fact, (https://www.forbes.cz https://www.forbes.cz) as an example. However, the question might now be -- do visitors to the Czech site have to agree to the same conditions and tracking as do visitors to the US site. If they're doing the same shenanigans on their Czech site as they are in the US, then of course, they are potentially violating GDPR. However, if the Czech site (as an EU example) IS following GDPR but the US site isn't, then there could be a strong case made that they aren't violating GDPR since the main Forbes site would clearly not be intended for EU consumption; GDPR, while applicable to the EU-side of the Forbes business, doesn't provide a blanket requirement for GDPR compliance across Forbes's non-EU properties. As far as EU citizens vs. residents, that concept ought to be clear: an EU citizen doesn't have protection of EU laws when outside of the EU just as an American banking in France isn't protected by US banking laws. The passport of a complainant isn't relevant, but their physical location. An EU resident American who is visiting the US isn't protected by EU consumer protection laws for example, during a visit to the United States.

icebraining 8y ago
As far as EU citizens vs. residents, that concept ought to be clear: an EU citizen doesn't have protection of EU laws when outside of the EU just as an American banking in France isn't protected by US banking laws. The passport of a complainant isn't relevant, but their physical location. Yes, that's a common point of confusion, but it's completely correct: the GDPR applies to people in the Union, not to EU citizens everywhere (for non-EU companies, that is - an EU company has to apply the same protections for every user in the world).

Normal_gaussian 8y ago

> How could EU law apply to a US publication? Via business partners, treaties, subsidiaries, sister companies, and the restriction on the freedoms of individuals from those countries. > Would US law apply to EU publications? Yes, in exactly the same way. Whether one has to worry about it relates to the dependence of the two countries on each other and their relative military might. > Is a representative from the EU going to show up in New York and serve Forbes a summons? I am genuinely curious how a US publication with no legal domicile in the EU have any obligation to follow EU laws. Each relevant body in each EU state can act independently, and they would presumably serve them a warning in any European office first, but for a US only company they would likely employ a US legal firm to deliver the letter for them. However its unlikely to be a summons, more likely a request for information followed by the penalty that is going to be imposed - there will probably be some opportunity for mediation and it could be escalated to a court. > If a California resident goes to an EU insurance website, will that EU company have to comply with California insurance advertising laws? Depends on Californias laws, but presuming the site was intentionally serving Californians then yes, it should, and would, be at risk of penalties in California. > I think that there is a lot of wishful thinking about GDPR and a lot of ignorance on how jurisdiction works, especially internationally. Undoubtedly > GDPR has no jurisdiction over companies without an EU domicile or physical presence. And EU citizens aren’t protected unless they are actually resident in the EU. The bodies that enforce the GDPR can recover their penalties by engaging any of many different legal apparatus, where they deem it appropriate (which will be rarely, if ever, as they have to convince other internal organisations to back them). It is harder, but by no means impossible, to recover money from abroad or to stop money transacting with a foreign entity. Anyone present in the EU is 'protected', residence is not required. --- Forbes media have offices in Paris, Milan, and London. They regulary engage in both high value financial transactions and on the ground reporting in the EU. If they were prevented from operating inside the EU it would cause them severe operational issues, and their place as an authority in Western media would disappear overnight.

maeln 8y ago

> Would US law apply to EU publications? Yes. For example Bank in the EU (or at least in France) have to report to the US financial organization if a US citizen open a bank account here.