4 ms·

One thing these articles nearly always gloss over is that these beautiful, clean metro systems stay that way partially because they close down for maintenance a

by gok 8y ago

One thing these articles nearly always gloss over is that these beautiful, clean metro systems stay that way partially because they close down for maintenance at night. The New York system runs 24/7, as does most of the "sorry crap" in Chicago. I presume there's an article here scolding Americans for staying up too late or something.

lstodd 8y ago
In Moscow, for example, the last trains from the end stations depart at 0100 and arrive at 0200-0230 or so at the other end, and the first ones depart at 0500 or so depending on the line. I wouldn't call those 3-4 hours closing down for the night. Even so, this break is used mostly for track maintenance where one can't have trains rolling. Station cleaning and rolling stock maintenance is ongoing, construction/repairs that do not require cutting electric power to the trains are being done 24/7. So, no excuse for NY.
a-nikolaev 8y ago
Well, the NYC subway is still grossly mismanaged, about 20-30% of it is down even on the best days, with tens if not hundreds route changes and station closures. On weekends and at night up to half of the system may not work. Because the system is poorly maintained, the trains run slower than what they should be, causing even more delays. EDIT: edited percentage to 20-30%
- lbriner 8y ago
  I've read lots of articles about mismanagement and unions pushing up costs for work but I wonder how much problem the 24/7 mentality creates? Even in London, the Tube is mostly shutdown for around 6 hours per night, not a lot of time but enough to make some fairly big inroads into the maintenance. I found the NYC subway to be fairly decent but I found the feeling of darkness in many stations to be more of a big deal. I wouldn't mind waiting in stations that were much lit much better.
- rco8786 8y ago
  > about 70-80% of it is down even on the best days, I’m not usually one to defend the MTA but this is wildly inaccurate.
  - a-nikolaev 8y ago
    thanks, I meant 70-80% is working
amoitnga 8y ago
I was thinking something similar, but honestly, getting wtf. Few months back I was traveling from Bronx to Brooklyn, pretty much opposite sides of the area. Normally it should take 2 hours and change. This time it took me 4... and a half. I left earlier, around 10. Didn't help. What's the point of 24/7 schedule, when it takes an hour and a half during the night for your train to arrive? Idk, I think I might've preferred them to shut the train down say 12pm-6am to give them time to improve whatever they need to. It would be much more useful to know the exact time it would take me to get places. Trains at night are pretty empty, I think with some adjustment, it wouldn't be a big deal for people, but maybe there is more to it.
rco8786 8y ago
CTA trains are not 24/7, fwiw
- gok 8y ago
  Red and Blue Line are, which are about half of ridership.
  - rco8786 8y ago
    Ah, interesting. Thanks
kalleboo 8y ago
If shutting down the trains for a few hours at night is what it takes, then maybe they should do that? Run night buses instead. "Instead of having a reliable system 20 hours a day let's have an unreliable system 24 hours a day" doesn't seem to make sense.
mynameisvlad 8y ago
You don't need to shut down the system to clean the stations, that should be happening all the time in a properly managed system. And when it comes to the trains themselves, with extra cars, you can easily rotate stock in and out in order to clean them, or have workers get on the trains at non-peak times (including at night) and clean as the train is in service. You don't need to deep clean each train every day to keep it clean, and with only 2 lines running 24/7, it's not like it'd be that hard to have extra rolling stock just for those two lines while cleaning the trains on non-24/7 lines at night. Simply put, 24/7 is not as big of an obstacle to cleanliness as you make it out to be. As other people mentioned, too, most of the work done in the evenings is track maintenance.
eternalban 8y ago
Counter point is rats.
Symbiote 8y ago
If you visit London and wander around a station (metro or regional rail), it won't take you long to see a cleaner. I used to live at the end of a line, and no matter the time of day there was very often a cleaner waiting by the frontmost door as the train pulled in. They could usually remove any litter before the train was due to leave, perhaps 5-8 minutes later. The service is less frequent overnight (Friday and Saturday only), which leaves plenty of time to clean more thoroughly at the depot. But I think that's a distraction. In comparison, NYC's subway looks dirty a) by lack of maintenance. Some areas just need fresh paint. b) by design. Bare concrete, unfinished, gloomy ceilings, yellow-ish lights, grey trains. In other situations (shopping mall, fast food) Americans have remarked to me that Europe can seem clinical, due to the high temperature of the lighting. I think those places, and the NYC subway, look dingy. The same light could look cosy, but only in a café or bar.
- Symbiote 8y ago
  There's even Freedom of Information requests on the number of cleaners and frequency of cleaning London Underground trains. Combined, the information shows they do a "deep clean" on every train every 21 days, and it takes four hours per carriage. Then 15 minutes per carriage just under twice per day per carriage. I suspect the cleaning I saw isn't part of this, but is the station cleaning staff feeling it's easier to pick the litter from the train rather that wait for wind to blow it out and around the station. https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1784-1819 https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-informa... https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-2033-1718 https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-informa...

by gok 8y ago

lstodd 8y ago

In Moscow, for example, the last trains from the end stations depart at 0100 and arrive at 0200-0230 or so at the other end, and the first ones depart at 0500 or so depending on the line. I wouldn't call those 3-4 hours closing down for the night. Even so, this break is used mostly for track maintenance where one can't have trains rolling. Station cleaning and rolling stock maintenance is ongoing, construction/repairs that do not require cutting electric power to the trains are being done 24/7. So, no excuse for NY.

a-nikolaev 8y ago

Well, the NYC subway is still grossly mismanaged, about 20-30% of it is down even on the best days, with tens if not hundreds route changes and station closures. On weekends and at night up to half of the system may not work. Because the system is poorly maintained, the trains run slower than what they should be, causing even more delays. EDIT: edited percentage to 20-30%

lbriner 8y ago
I've read lots of articles about mismanagement and unions pushing up costs for work but I wonder how much problem the 24/7 mentality creates? Even in London, the Tube is mostly shutdown for around 6 hours per night, not a lot of time but enough to make some fairly big inroads into the maintenance. I found the NYC subway to be fairly decent but I found the feeling of darkness in many stations to be more of a big deal. I wouldn't mind waiting in stations that were much lit much better.
rco8786 8y ago
> about 70-80% of it is down even on the best days, I’m not usually one to defend the MTA but this is wildly inaccurate.
- a-nikolaev 8y ago
  thanks, I meant 70-80% is working

amoitnga 8y ago

I was thinking something similar, but honestly, getting wtf. Few months back I was traveling from Bronx to Brooklyn, pretty much opposite sides of the area. Normally it should take 2 hours and change. This time it took me 4... and a half. I left earlier, around 10. Didn't help. What's the point of 24/7 schedule, when it takes an hour and a half during the night for your train to arrive? Idk, I think I might've preferred them to shut the train down say 12pm-6am to give them time to improve whatever they need to. It would be much more useful to know the exact time it would take me to get places. Trains at night are pretty empty, I think with some adjustment, it wouldn't be a big deal for people, but maybe there is more to it.

rco8786 8y ago

CTA trains are not 24/7, fwiw

gok 8y ago
Red and Blue Line are, which are about half of ridership.
- rco8786 8y ago
  Ah, interesting. Thanks

kalleboo 8y ago

If shutting down the trains for a few hours at night is what it takes, then maybe they should do that? Run night buses instead. "Instead of having a reliable system 20 hours a day let's have an unreliable system 24 hours a day" doesn't seem to make sense.

mynameisvlad 8y ago

You don't need to shut down the system to clean the stations, that should be happening all the time in a properly managed system. And when it comes to the trains themselves, with extra cars, you can easily rotate stock in and out in order to clean them, or have workers get on the trains at non-peak times (including at night) and clean as the train is in service. You don't need to deep clean each train every day to keep it clean, and with only 2 lines running 24/7, it's not like it'd be that hard to have extra rolling stock just for those two lines while cleaning the trains on non-24/7 lines at night. Simply put, 24/7 is not as big of an obstacle to cleanliness as you make it out to be. As other people mentioned, too, most of the work done in the evenings is track maintenance.

eternalban 8y ago

Counter point is rats.

Symbiote 8y ago

If you visit London and wander around a station (metro or regional rail), it won't take you long to see a cleaner. I used to live at the end of a line, and no matter the time of day there was very often a cleaner waiting by the frontmost door as the train pulled in. They could usually remove any litter before the train was due to leave, perhaps 5-8 minutes later. The service is less frequent overnight (Friday and Saturday only), which leaves plenty of time to clean more thoroughly at the depot. But I think that's a distraction. In comparison, NYC's subway looks dirty a) by lack of maintenance. Some areas just need fresh paint. b) by design. Bare concrete, unfinished, gloomy ceilings, yellow-ish lights, grey trains. In other situations (shopping mall, fast food) Americans have remarked to me that Europe can seem clinical, due to the high temperature of the lighting. I think those places, and the NYC subway, look dingy. The same light could look cosy, but only in a café or bar.

Symbiote 8y ago
There's even Freedom of Information requests on the number of cleaners and frequency of cleaning London Underground trains. Combined, the information shows they do a "deep clean" on every train every 21 days, and it takes four hours per carriage. Then 15 minutes per carriage just under twice per day per carriage. I suspect the cleaning I saw isn't part of this, but is the station cleaning staff feeling it's easier to pick the litter from the train rather that wait for wind to blow it out and around the station. https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1784-1819 https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-informa... https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-2033-1718 https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-informa...