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"His workers must agree to install spyware on their computers so Crossover’s productivity team can track the number of times they click their mouse or stroke th

by arbuge 8y ago

"His workers must agree to install spyware on their computers so Crossover’s productivity team can track the number of times they click their mouse or stroke their keyboard. The tracking software takes screenshots every ten minutes and, in some cases, snaps photos from PC webcams." If they really believe they can measure programming ability by the number of times their workers are clicking things, I'd give a wide berth to their software products.

cat199 8y ago
probably a secondary system for auditing.. previously worked on-site at a web hosting company which had similar sorts of spy systems in place - these weren't really checked or used as a primary measure, but more that spot checks were done to see if people were 'generally busy', and also when actual productivity (support request qty/quality) was down or discipline problems occurred the systems would be used to inspect/audit other performance. programming is for sure less 'mechanical' than routine system support support requests, but I can see the same sorts of measurement as useful in a remote work / no trust environment.
sova 8y ago
I measure profundity of novels in ink expended, and the success of my parties in the amount of confetti cast. According to the spec this is the perfect procedure. My pet hamster has his doubts.
- geofft 8y ago
  But writers actually do get paid by the word. Charles Dickens was famously paid by the page, and his novels ended up profound enough. I'd wager most professional writers are in the business to make a living, not to be profound.
  - cobbzilla 8y ago
    According to this scholar[1], Dickens was not paid per word or per page, but “per episode”, as many of his books were published a chapter at a time. [1] https://dickens.ucsc.edu/resources/faq/by-the-word.html https://dickens.ucsc.edu/resources/faq/by-the-word.html
    - geofft 8y ago
      That resource says he was paid for every 32 pages. In any case, it seems like for at least some of his early books like The Pickwick Papers, he was paid proportional to volume of output and not to sales/quality. (For some of his later works he earned a percentage of sales.) It's a perfectly fine model for people who aren't already as famous as late-career-Dickens and it can nonetheless produce profound work.
  - Sandman 8y ago
    I'd wager Dickens didn't have anybody stand over his shoulder, watching if he's delivering page after page at a fast enough rate.
geofft 8y ago
They're hiring the software equivalent of Subway sandwich artists, not chefs at two-Michelin-star restaurants. Sure, both jobs involve placing cheese on top of bread. But in one of them the goal is to do it repeatedly and reliably, not creatively or innovatively.
- redleggedfrog 8y ago
  Great comment. Made me reflect on the need for different kinds of software development - each relevant, but completely different in execution.
  - sologoub 8y ago
    What really worries me is that most non-tech companies (and even some tech companies) don’t understand the difference and frequently allocate resources inversely - paying the equivalent of a Michelin chef to make subs and trying to get top dollar dinner cooked with teams barely skilled in the subject. The “cloud wage” story could be very compelling in such situations, but it will likely lead to a lot of issues with the more complex systems. Someone has to be the true “architect” and own the successful evolution of the software/business. Back in 2014, this article struck me as very insightful on the subject: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/04/07/business/gods-edging-out-robots-at-toyota-facility/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/04/07/business/gods-e... If you only have automation or low-end jobs, you are going to lose the ability to make transformative/revolutionary moves. You will still have the ability to refine existing processes, but there are definitely diminishing returns to consider. The other item that’s also glossed over is sheer productivity - when dealing with more complex issues, experienced developers are a lot more productive, so your $15/hr can easily turn into 10-20x more hours with the wrong experience choice, in the end costing you more. Hate to use a cliche, but “the right tool for the right job” applies to software too.
    - geofft 8y ago
      And then they evaluate people on their Michelin-star-worthy work, which leads to the phenomenon of "promo-driven development" - people building new complex systems (that immediately turn into legacy code) because they don't get rewarded for doing something simple and maintainable. And then you need more Michelin-star-worthy chefs to keep things running because no sandwich artist will be able to figure it out.
fallingfrog 8y ago
It’s probably not aimed so much at actual productivity, which you can measure in other ways, as it’s a measure for behavioral control- in other words, making sure everyone is always a little bit anxious, feeling a little bit guilty, so that they don’t try to unionize or complain too much.
bdcravens 8y ago
TimeDoctor has offered similar software for years.
- wprapido 8y ago
  I worked on their UI when they were also offering hiring services via staff.com. Majority of freelance marketplaces use the same creepy tracking software for gigs paid by the hour.
  - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
    Someone needs to create a tool that exercises your IDE and gives the impression of activity. You could run it in a VM while you get on with the real work.
onetimemanytime 8y ago
what if it's just to scare them ? hey, stop f-ing around, we're tracking you
itronitron 8y ago
so either they don't know that you can use an issue tracker (or VCS) to get insight into productivity, or they don't use an issue tracker (or VCS), or both.

by arbuge 8y ago

cat199 8y ago

probably a secondary system for auditing.. previously worked on-site at a web hosting company which had similar sorts of spy systems in place - these weren't really checked or used as a primary measure, but more that spot checks were done to see if people were 'generally busy', and also when actual productivity (support request qty/quality) was down or discipline problems occurred the systems would be used to inspect/audit other performance. programming is for sure less 'mechanical' than routine system support support requests, but I can see the same sorts of measurement as useful in a remote work / no trust environment.

sova 8y ago

I measure profundity of novels in ink expended, and the success of my parties in the amount of confetti cast. According to the spec this is the perfect procedure. My pet hamster has his doubts.

geofft 8y ago
But writers actually do get paid by the word. Charles Dickens was famously paid by the page, and his novels ended up profound enough. I'd wager most professional writers are in the business to make a living, not to be profound.
- cobbzilla 8y ago
  According to this scholar[1], Dickens was not paid per word or per page, but “per episode”, as many of his books were published a chapter at a time. [1] https://dickens.ucsc.edu/resources/faq/by-the-word.html https://dickens.ucsc.edu/resources/faq/by-the-word.html
  - geofft 8y ago
    That resource says he was paid for every 32 pages. In any case, it seems like for at least some of his early books like The Pickwick Papers, he was paid proportional to volume of output and not to sales/quality. (For some of his later works he earned a percentage of sales.) It's a perfectly fine model for people who aren't already as famous as late-career-Dickens and it can nonetheless produce profound work.
- Sandman 8y ago
  I'd wager Dickens didn't have anybody stand over his shoulder, watching if he's delivering page after page at a fast enough rate.

geofft 8y ago

They're hiring the software equivalent of Subway sandwich artists, not chefs at two-Michelin-star restaurants. Sure, both jobs involve placing cheese on top of bread. But in one of them the goal is to do it repeatedly and reliably, not creatively or innovatively.

redleggedfrog 8y ago
Great comment. Made me reflect on the need for different kinds of software development - each relevant, but completely different in execution.
- sologoub 8y ago
  What really worries me is that most non-tech companies (and even some tech companies) don’t understand the difference and frequently allocate resources inversely - paying the equivalent of a Michelin chef to make subs and trying to get top dollar dinner cooked with teams barely skilled in the subject. The “cloud wage” story could be very compelling in such situations, but it will likely lead to a lot of issues with the more complex systems. Someone has to be the true “architect” and own the successful evolution of the software/business. Back in 2014, this article struck me as very insightful on the subject: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/04/07/business/gods-edging-out-robots-at-toyota-facility/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/04/07/business/gods-e... If you only have automation or low-end jobs, you are going to lose the ability to make transformative/revolutionary moves. You will still have the ability to refine existing processes, but there are definitely diminishing returns to consider. The other item that’s also glossed over is sheer productivity - when dealing with more complex issues, experienced developers are a lot more productive, so your $15/hr can easily turn into 10-20x more hours with the wrong experience choice, in the end costing you more. Hate to use a cliche, but “the right tool for the right job” applies to software too.
  - geofft 8y ago
    And then they evaluate people on their Michelin-star-worthy work, which leads to the phenomenon of "promo-driven development" - people building new complex systems (that immediately turn into legacy code) because they don't get rewarded for doing something simple and maintainable. And then you need more Michelin-star-worthy chefs to keep things running because no sandwich artist will be able to figure it out.

fallingfrog 8y ago

It’s probably not aimed so much at actual productivity, which you can measure in other ways, as it’s a measure for behavioral control- in other words, making sure everyone is always a little bit anxious, feeling a little bit guilty, so that they don’t try to unionize or complain too much.

bdcravens 8y ago

TimeDoctor has offered similar software for years.

wprapido 8y ago
I worked on their UI when they were also offering hiring services via staff.com. Majority of freelance marketplaces use the same creepy tracking software for gigs paid by the hour.
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  Someone needs to create a tool that exercises your IDE and gives the impression of activity. You could run it in a VM while you get on with the real work.

onetimemanytime 8y ago

what if it's just to scare them ? hey, stop f-ing around, we're tracking you

itronitron 8y ago

so either they don't know that you can use an issue tracker (or VCS) to get insight into productivity, or they don't use an issue tracker (or VCS), or both.