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Chinese value personal freedom and do enjoy quite a lot of it, actually. In fact, I'd say that Chinese society allows more individuality and freedom than e.g. J

Chinese value personal freedom and do enjoy quite a lot of it, actually. In fact, I'd say that Chinese society allows more individuality and freedom than e.g. Japanese society.

Kaveren 8y ago
I thought your name was familiar. You were the same person who implied that anyone who doesn't visit China isn't allowed to have an opinion, and blew off human rights abuses [0]. Why you insist on defending China with such rigor, I'm not sure. No, the Chinese people do not have quite a lot of personal freedom. You have no right to freedom of speech in the sense anyone in a Western country does. You do not have the freedom to a transparent judicial process. You do not have the freedom not to be monitored by the government for being the wrong ethnic group. I find that you in particular refuse to reply to the content of arguments, even when prodded. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18361217 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18361217
- ElBarto 8y ago
  I am not defending anything. I find the trend of accusing others of defending something simply because they refuse to join the mob quite worrying. I am just stating simple facts in a dispassionate way. Considering the distorted way any country (and especially China) is represented in the media and in some comments I read here (including yours, which close to hysterical) the best advice is indeed to withhold strong opinions if you have no direct experience and knowledge. I don't deny the drastic restrictions in force in China regarding Rights with a capital R, but again in practice they do enjoy as many practical rights as we do in daily life and Chinese society is in fact much less 'oppressive' than, say, Japan. The way you keep track of my comments and your ad hominem attacks could be construed as bullying and harassment, by the way.
  - Kaveren 8y ago
    I don't really keep track of your comments, but your username and topic combination sounded familiar, so I checked to see if you were the same personn. I think topical context with a commenter is relevant, just as my past remarks on China are. If someone wants to construe "refuse to reply to the content of arguments" (as opposed to replying on the basis of where someone lives) as bullying and harassment, so be it. I don't deny that if you conform in China you have nothing to worry about. It's no warzone. But it is not a friendly country to those who are not conformists or are minorities, and may not toe the Party line. As an example, the Uyghurs are a sizable group for whom are consistently oppressed by the government. This is not a distortion of any kind. We know about the intense surveillance (more intrusive than normal Chinese citizen surveillance), the "re-education camps", et cetera. Direct experience can only serve to confirm or deny facts, it does not change them. It's also much harder for direct experience to be of any value without a free press to challenge government narratives.
throwaway548u65 8y ago
Definitely agree. Japan’s social and cultural norms are a lot more stifling than China’s. But both are more stifling than the America’s.

Chinese value personal freedom and do enjoy quite a lot of it, actually. In fact, I'd say that Chinese society allows more individuality and freedom than e.g. Japanese society.

Kaveren 8y ago

I thought your name was familiar. You were the same person who implied that anyone who doesn't visit China isn't allowed to have an opinion, and blew off human rights abuses [0]. Why you insist on defending China with such rigor, I'm not sure. No, the Chinese people do not have quite a lot of personal freedom. You have no right to freedom of speech in the sense anyone in a Western country does. You do not have the freedom to a transparent judicial process. You do not have the freedom not to be monitored by the government for being the wrong ethnic group. I find that you in particular refuse to reply to the content of arguments, even when prodded. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18361217 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18361217

ElBarto 8y ago
I am not defending anything. I find the trend of accusing others of defending something simply because they refuse to join the mob quite worrying. I am just stating simple facts in a dispassionate way. Considering the distorted way any country (and especially China) is represented in the media and in some comments I read here (including yours, which close to hysterical) the best advice is indeed to withhold strong opinions if you have no direct experience and knowledge. I don't deny the drastic restrictions in force in China regarding Rights with a capital R, but again in practice they do enjoy as many practical rights as we do in daily life and Chinese society is in fact much less 'oppressive' than, say, Japan. The way you keep track of my comments and your ad hominem attacks could be construed as bullying and harassment, by the way.
- Kaveren 8y ago
  I don't really keep track of your comments, but your username and topic combination sounded familiar, so I checked to see if you were the same personn. I think topical context with a commenter is relevant, just as my past remarks on China are. If someone wants to construe "refuse to reply to the content of arguments" (as opposed to replying on the basis of where someone lives) as bullying and harassment, so be it. I don't deny that if you conform in China you have nothing to worry about. It's no warzone. But it is not a friendly country to those who are not conformists or are minorities, and may not toe the Party line. As an example, the Uyghurs are a sizable group for whom are consistently oppressed by the government. This is not a distortion of any kind. We know about the intense surveillance (more intrusive than normal Chinese citizen surveillance), the "re-education camps", et cetera. Direct experience can only serve to confirm or deny facts, it does not change them. It's also much harder for direct experience to be of any value without a free press to challenge government narratives.

throwaway548u65 8y ago

Definitely agree. Japan’s social and cultural norms are a lot more stifling than China’s. But both are more stifling than the America’s.