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> Why do we keep selling weapons to such a repressive regime? Realpolitik. The US (and UK, I guess) are closely allied to the Saudis in order to counteract Ir

> Why do we keep selling weapons to such a repressive regime? Realpolitik. The US (and UK, I guess) are closely allied to the Saudis in order to counteract Iranian influence in the region. The theory is that the world will be in better shape if the Saudis have a military capable of deterring Iran. It's a theory -- I don't know if it's correct, but it seems at least plausible.

mikeash 8y ago
It’s sad, because it sure seems like the Iranians would make far better allies for us.
- reitanqild 8y ago
  If they haden't been so determined to wipe out (their words) the only working democracy in the region and the only country in the region that doesn't from time to time persecute Jews, maybe? (This is not a defense for everything Israel does, but an observation of the fact that it is considered a working democracy and it is the only country in the region that can be said to be safe for Jews to live in.)
  - Pica_soO 8y ago
    If Iran would flip and accept israel- men would these guys be welcome. Only middle-eastern country besides israel with some serious science.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - lostlogin 8y ago
    This is misleading. Look what happened to Iran when they tried democracy. The west ruined it. We can’t have it both ways. Western meddling has caused way too much harm in the region, and it shows no sign of stopping.
    - reitanqild 8y ago
      I'm in no way defending the meddling with Iran. I'm just pointing out the situation now.
  - thwyanony11122 8y ago
    Our ally, Kingdom of Saudi Barbaria say similar things about the Jews; it’s even in their textbooks being taught to their 10th Grade students: >Among the passages found in one 10th-grade Saudi textbook on Monotheism included: "The Hour will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews, and Muslims will kill all the Jews." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_textbook_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_textbook_controv...
- ReptileMan 8y ago
  They "only" need to topple the current teocracy and put secular government in place while not turning into failed state. With Iran military being the second largest military in Iran after the revolutionary guard that is next to impossible. It will lead to situation which will make Syria look enviable. Otherwise you are right - Iran is the natueal ally in the region. And it was such until 1979.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    Why does Iran need to ditch their theocracy to be our ally, but Saudi Arabia gets to keep theirs? That’s what I don’t understand. The Iranian government is a bunch of oppressive fuckheads and stands for many things we oppose... but that’s even more the case with Saudi Arabia, so we treat like kings.
    - ReptileMan 8y ago
      Because their theocracy refers to US as great satan? That complicates any possible alliance a bit. I think that they may also hold grudge for US support of US' best buddy Saddam Hussein during Iran - Iraq war that cost them a nice chunk of a million lives.
      - mikeash 8y ago
        Would they still do that if we made friends with them?
        ReptileMan 8y ago
        That could take decades to accomplish and would require US to throw Israel under the bus. And the US would not win anything of value.
      - Pica_soO 8y ago
        Saudi Arabias school book dont have nice words for america either. The 9/11 cause was that a whole generation of islamic men grew up hating infidels (russians & americans alike). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_textbook_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_textbook_controv...
- justaaron 8y ago
  Indeed. But of course, how many UK and American citizens know the history of Iran, our role in overthrowing the democratically elected Mossadegh, who rightfully wanted to nationalize their oil (the obvious source of the Occidents umbrage too...) and our installation of the repressive Shah Pahlavi regime that led to the Iranian revolution of 1979 that initially featured students and workers and such, but later turned into a purge, as most revolutions do, in which the powerful theocrats basically seized the nation, and thus bringing us into the modern era and the detente with Iran that still makes no sense. Contrast this with the constant support of the various Hashemite kings directly since Trans-Jordan and Syria-Palestina were handed over... basically we set up satrapies in the wake of seizing the Ottoman empire and not being able to manage it ourselves...
- Koshkin 8y ago
  Well, isn't Iran "the biggest sponsor of terrorism"? While the Saudi Arabia is "the greatest ally" of the West in fighting it?
  - mikeash 8y ago
    That’s the rationale. Of course, the Saudis do a lot to promote terrorism themselves.
  - thwyanony11122 8y ago
    Calling Iran the biggest sponsor of terrorism is gaslighting at best. The proof is in the pudding with Kingdom of Saudi Barbaria funding 90% of mosques around the world with their hardline Wahhabism, Salafism, and Deobandism[1][2]. 15 of the 19 hijackers who blew up a city block were citizens of our ally, Saudi Barbaria. When the King was confronted over the attacks, he blamed the Israeli Mossad. Iran has never touched American soil, ever. So calling Iran the biggest sponsor of terrorism is gaslighting at best. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism#Funding_factor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism#Funding_factor [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi#Presence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi#Presence >Estimates of Saudi spending on religious causes abroad include "upward of $100 billion";[318] between $2 and 3 billion per year since 1975 (compared to the annual Soviet propaganda budget of $1 billion/year);[319] and "at least $87 billion" from 1987–2007.[320]
  - prolikewh0a 8y ago
    The total opposite, even though big media likes to say otherwise. Iran is fairly benign, but Israel has beef with them. There is a lot of propaganda over Iran. I feel like it's probably the next one-sided big war.
  - ionised 8y ago
    That's all lies. Whenever the US issues a statement on Iran, it is best to just assume it's total agenda-driven bullshit.
- tomohawk 8y ago
  This is like saying, in 1939, its sad because it sure seems like the Germans would make far better allies for us. There were plenty of people who said that, but With the Nazis in power, they were very wrong. The Iranian government is a police state controlled by a bunch of fanatical fascists, who are one of the most successful terrorism exporting states ever. Just recently they were caught attempting to kill people in Belgium and France. And those are just the recent catches.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    And that’s different from the Saudis how?
    - tomohawk 8y ago
      The Iranians are very aggressively attempting to take over the middle east. The Egyptians Saudis are attempting to prevent this. The battlefields today are Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, and Palestine.
      - mikeash 8y ago
        What stops the Saudis from doing the same? Given current events, it looks like they are.
        tomohawk 8y ago
        Their vastly smaller population. Also, unlike Iran, they have not been talking about doing things like wiping out Isreal, etc. Once Iran consolidates power in the areas they're operating in (Yemen, Iraq, Syria), the next obvious target is Saudi Arabia.
        mikeash 8y ago
        Back to your 1939 analogy, that sounds just like reasons for allying with the Nazis.
  - 8y ago
- tomp 8y ago
  It's all about Israel. Iran wants to destroy Israel, erase it from the map. Saudi Arabia is happy to keep its mouth shut in exchange for weapons, oil money and influence.
  - lostlogin 8y ago
    Saudi doesn’t keep it’s mouth shut. It exports hatred and murder loudly, while it’s western allies keep their mouths shut or even defend them.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- GordonS 8y ago
  I actually went to Tehran in 2000 (oil & gas industry related trip), and it wasn't a bit like the anti-Iran propaganda machine would have had me believe - everyone I met was really friendly, and nobody seemed particularly conservative or over-zealous in their religious views. On top of that, the food was incredible, and lots of people even spoke great English! Iran is also home to many historical sites - if politics were different, it would likely be a popular tourist destination.

mikeash 8y ago

It’s sad, because it sure seems like the Iranians would make far better allies for us.

reitanqild 8y ago
If they haden't been so determined to wipe out (their words) the only working democracy in the region and the only country in the region that doesn't from time to time persecute Jews, maybe? (This is not a defense for everything Israel does, but an observation of the fact that it is considered a working democracy and it is the only country in the region that can be said to be safe for Jews to live in.)
- Pica_soO 8y ago
  If Iran would flip and accept israel- men would these guys be welcome. Only middle-eastern country besides israel with some serious science.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- lostlogin 8y ago
  This is misleading. Look what happened to Iran when they tried democracy. The west ruined it. We can’t have it both ways. Western meddling has caused way too much harm in the region, and it shows no sign of stopping.
  - reitanqild 8y ago
    I'm in no way defending the meddling with Iran. I'm just pointing out the situation now.
- thwyanony11122 8y ago
  Our ally, Kingdom of Saudi Barbaria say similar things about the Jews; it’s even in their textbooks being taught to their 10th Grade students: >Among the passages found in one 10th-grade Saudi textbook on Monotheism included: "The Hour will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews, and Muslims will kill all the Jews." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_textbook_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_textbook_controv...
ReptileMan 8y ago
They "only" need to topple the current teocracy and put secular government in place while not turning into failed state. With Iran military being the second largest military in Iran after the revolutionary guard that is next to impossible. It will lead to situation which will make Syria look enviable. Otherwise you are right - Iran is the natueal ally in the region. And it was such until 1979.
- mikeash 8y ago
  Why does Iran need to ditch their theocracy to be our ally, but Saudi Arabia gets to keep theirs? That’s what I don’t understand. The Iranian government is a bunch of oppressive fuckheads and stands for many things we oppose... but that’s even more the case with Saudi Arabia, so we treat like kings.
  - ReptileMan 8y ago
    Because their theocracy refers to US as great satan? That complicates any possible alliance a bit. I think that they may also hold grudge for US support of US' best buddy Saddam Hussein during Iran - Iraq war that cost them a nice chunk of a million lives.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      Would they still do that if we made friends with them?
      - ReptileMan 8y ago
        That could take decades to accomplish and would require US to throw Israel under the bus. And the US would not win anything of value.
    - Pica_soO 8y ago
      Saudi Arabias school book dont have nice words for america either. The 9/11 cause was that a whole generation of islamic men grew up hating infidels (russians & americans alike). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_textbook_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_textbook_controv...
justaaron 8y ago
Indeed. But of course, how many UK and American citizens know the history of Iran, our role in overthrowing the democratically elected Mossadegh, who rightfully wanted to nationalize their oil (the obvious source of the Occidents umbrage too...) and our installation of the repressive Shah Pahlavi regime that led to the Iranian revolution of 1979 that initially featured students and workers and such, but later turned into a purge, as most revolutions do, in which the powerful theocrats basically seized the nation, and thus bringing us into the modern era and the detente with Iran that still makes no sense. Contrast this with the constant support of the various Hashemite kings directly since Trans-Jordan and Syria-Palestina were handed over... basically we set up satrapies in the wake of seizing the Ottoman empire and not being able to manage it ourselves...
Koshkin 8y ago
Well, isn't Iran "the biggest sponsor of terrorism"? While the Saudi Arabia is "the greatest ally" of the West in fighting it?
- mikeash 8y ago
  That’s the rationale. Of course, the Saudis do a lot to promote terrorism themselves.
- thwyanony11122 8y ago
  Calling Iran the biggest sponsor of terrorism is gaslighting at best. The proof is in the pudding with Kingdom of Saudi Barbaria funding 90% of mosques around the world with their hardline Wahhabism, Salafism, and Deobandism[1][2]. 15 of the 19 hijackers who blew up a city block were citizens of our ally, Saudi Barbaria. When the King was confronted over the attacks, he blamed the Israeli Mossad. Iran has never touched American soil, ever. So calling Iran the biggest sponsor of terrorism is gaslighting at best. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism#Funding_factor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism#Funding_factor [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi#Presence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi#Presence >Estimates of Saudi spending on religious causes abroad include "upward of $100 billion";[318] between $2 and 3 billion per year since 1975 (compared to the annual Soviet propaganda budget of $1 billion/year);[319] and "at least $87 billion" from 1987–2007.[320]
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  The total opposite, even though big media likes to say otherwise. Iran is fairly benign, but Israel has beef with them. There is a lot of propaganda over Iran. I feel like it's probably the next one-sided big war.
- ionised 8y ago
  That's all lies. Whenever the US issues a statement on Iran, it is best to just assume it's total agenda-driven bullshit.
tomohawk 8y ago
This is like saying, in 1939, its sad because it sure seems like the Germans would make far better allies for us. There were plenty of people who said that, but With the Nazis in power, they were very wrong. The Iranian government is a police state controlled by a bunch of fanatical fascists, who are one of the most successful terrorism exporting states ever. Just recently they were caught attempting to kill people in Belgium and France. And those are just the recent catches.
- mikeash 8y ago
  And that’s different from the Saudis how?
  - tomohawk 8y ago
    The Iranians are very aggressively attempting to take over the middle east. The Egyptians Saudis are attempting to prevent this. The battlefields today are Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, and Palestine.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      What stops the Saudis from doing the same? Given current events, it looks like they are.
      - tomohawk 8y ago
        Their vastly smaller population. Also, unlike Iran, they have not been talking about doing things like wiping out Isreal, etc. Once Iran consolidates power in the areas they're operating in (Yemen, Iraq, Syria), the next obvious target is Saudi Arabia.
        mikeash 8y ago
        Back to your 1939 analogy, that sounds just like reasons for allying with the Nazis.
- 8y ago
tomp 8y ago
It's all about Israel. Iran wants to destroy Israel, erase it from the map. Saudi Arabia is happy to keep its mouth shut in exchange for weapons, oil money and influence.
- lostlogin 8y ago
  Saudi doesn’t keep it’s mouth shut. It exports hatred and murder loudly, while it’s western allies keep their mouths shut or even defend them.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
GordonS 8y ago
I actually went to Tehran in 2000 (oil & gas industry related trip), and it wasn't a bit like the anti-Iran propaganda machine would have had me believe - everyone I met was really friendly, and nobody seemed particularly conservative or over-zealous in their religious views. On top of that, the food was incredible, and lots of people even spoke great English! Iran is also home to many historical sites - if politics were different, it would likely be a popular tourist destination.