3 ms·

As a non-chinese 'westerner', to my understanding the important background to this culturally is that Chinese culture has been traditionally much more legalisti

by fsloth 8y ago

As a non-chinese 'westerner', to my understanding the important background to this culturally is that Chinese culture has been traditionally much more legalistic than western culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalism_(Chinese_philosophy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalism_(Chinese_philosophy). It has lots of nuances but the most important difference, if compared to western view of the justice system and the rights of state, is that the most important thing in a legalistic system is to punish those that break the law, and other considerations like individuals right to a fair proceeding and so on, are secondary. I think this social credit system is the perfect manifestation of the legalistic frame of mind. The system is built so that those that step out of the line are punished. Western humanistic philosophy is quite new when compared to how chinese state has been ruled for millenias. I'm not saying this to make any value propositions into one direction or the other - just that there is quite a lot of cultural background here that Europeans and anglosaxons might not be aware of.

skrebbel 8y ago
I think this is a valid observation, and I hadn't made the link yet. Legalism has been used since the very first Chinese emperors to keep the population in check. It's a tool of oppression and arguably no place has a richer history of tools of oppression than China. Xi must be thinking "hey, it worked for millennia, why stop now?"
throwaway548u65 8y ago
Yet in practice, I’ve had the opposite experience. In China, when you break some rule or law, the police are much more lenient and forgiving. First time offenders (of minor crimes) always just get warnings. Even if the law requires a fine or some punishment, most cops will let you go after a stern lecturing. But in the US, once the bureaucracy kicks in, then you have to follow the letter of the law. There is very little compassion. It’s about punishment, not re-education. Perhaps it’s different in Europe, but that’s my experience in China and the US.

by fsloth 8y ago

skrebbel 8y ago

I think this is a valid observation, and I hadn't made the link yet. Legalism has been used since the very first Chinese emperors to keep the population in check. It's a tool of oppression and arguably no place has a richer history of tools of oppression than China. Xi must be thinking "hey, it worked for millennia, why stop now?"

throwaway548u65 8y ago

Yet in practice, I’ve had the opposite experience. In China, when you break some rule or law, the police are much more lenient and forgiving. First time offenders (of minor crimes) always just get warnings. Even if the law requires a fine or some punishment, most cops will let you go after a stern lecturing. But in the US, once the bureaucracy kicks in, then you have to follow the letter of the law. There is very little compassion. It’s about punishment, not re-education. Perhaps it’s different in Europe, but that’s my experience in China and the US.