7 ms·

What the article described is just one device. With all the sicknesses and ailments that afflict people, the insurance companies must have a very extensive play

What the article described is just one device. With all the sicknesses and ailments that afflict people, the insurance companies must have a very extensive playbook... Or you know, get a national health service that treats human beings with dignity and humanity.

jki275 8y ago
You haven't had much experience with governments if you think a national health service is going to treat people with dignity and humanity.
- jlangenauer 8y ago
  Have you ever experienced care with the NHS in the UK? Or Australia's public health service? Or Germany's universal health care? I have, and in all 3 cases, I've seen exceptional care from professional doctors, nurses and support staff delivered with dignity, humanity and care. Your statement is pure ideology.
  - jki275 8y ago
    No, I've been under government health care for the majority of my adult life in the US. I know exactly how it works, and it's abysmal.
    - Delmania 8y ago
      No you haven't. The ACA is not government run healthcare by a long shot. Medicare and Medicaid tend to be immensely popular.
      - jki275 8y ago
        Not talking about ACA. The ACA has existed for what, about six years? I've been active duty military my entire adult life, over 20 years, the military healthcare system is the ideal system you're advocating for. I'm an expert in how horrible it is.
        noir-york 8y ago
        The VA is not fit for purpose. I don't blame you for thinking that govt. run services suck but frankly how the US treats its veterans (not just medical health but also pensions, etc) is shocking.
        graeme 8y ago
        FWIW, it sounds like veteran's health care in the us is more top down than most "government" health programs in other countries. All the staff are VA employees, right? In Canada, by contrast, the doctors and hospitals tend to be private. The government pays, and sets price schedules, but they don't directly control care. It's obviously a bit more complicated than that, but the public system sounds much less centralized than your VA health system.
        justinclift 8y ago
        > the military healthcare system is the ideal system you're advocating for ... Hmmm, it sounds more like a terrible implementation, whereas some of the other implementations are generally decent?
        Karunamon 8y ago
        That depends on if the implementation details are country and culture-specific. Knowing what I know of the VA and my former service roommate’s experiences with them, I can’t really blame people for thinking any such system run by our government expanded to more people would never be efficient or better. Something something better the devil you know...
        howard941 8y ago
        Just to be clear are you unhappy with active duty medical service provided by active service members to other active service members? Tri-Care? VA? It sounds like the first
        jki275 8y ago
        Both are horrible. Medicare and Medicaid are almost as bad from what I've seen.
    - ska 8y ago
      Experience how parts of it works currently in the US is very far from knowing what is possible.
    - arbitrary_name 8y ago
      Sorry buddy, lived in Germany, uk, nz, aus and am now in the us dealing with a family member going through terminal illness. All i can say is you are wildly off base, we're putting my dad on an international flight to save him 200k on treatment costs (immunotherapy). Same shit, different system, fully funded and no out of pocket cost compared to the us of a. Keep your system, its failing.
- lowercased 8y ago
  If it doesn't, it's possible, through voting, to change how that operates. There's absolutely nothing that can be done in the 'free market' which would have any impact on providers/insurance companies.
  - jki275 8y ago
    If you believe voting changes how government operates, you haven't been paying attention. The powers are entrenched and voting does little to change anything in government anymore. We don't have a free market health care system anyway, it's a hodgepodge of regulation and absurdity today. Making it single payer would simplify that situation, but claiming it would add dignity to the process is just uninformed.
    - Delmania 8y ago
      If you actual compare the data and spout outdated and trite political philosophies, healthcare systems that have significant government involvement tend to be more effective and offer a better quality of care for the money spent than free market solutions. Policies should be made based on data and facts, not sure political philosophy coined years before any of these issues became apparent.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - noir-york 8y ago
      > If you believe voting changes how government operates, you haven't been paying attention. The powers are entrenched and voting does little to change anything in government anymore. I agree with you there in the context of the US. What desperately needs changing is campaign finance. Lobbying, Citizens United, etc has completely ruined politics in the US.
      - jki275 8y ago
        What needs changing is term limits. One should not be able to spend 40 years in Congress or the Senate.
- noir-york 8y ago
  To the contrary I have extensive experience with governments and I happen to live in a country with a well funded national health service. My own mother uses the service regularly (heart / digestive system conditions) and she always receives excellent care. If where you live has a bad healthcare system or ineffective government, you need to look at the local conditions and please don't generalise. Maybe a positive attitude that government (which is after all, us) can be a force of good would be a good start.
  - kodablah 8y ago
    > you need to look at the local conditions and please don't generalise Presumably, since the context is US healthcare, maybe the commenter meant "governments" inside the US. At the least, it's not worth assuming they meant every government everywhere for all time given the context. Please don't generalize. > Maybe a positive attitude that government (which is after all, us) can be a force of good would be a good start. Amusing that such a general statement about government follows a statement about not making general statements about government. Experiences and governments vary wildly. Benefits of support/trust attitudes versus the opposite also vary wildly with differing levels of success.
- Retric 8y ago
  It gets dumped on bur the US Veterans Affars system works much better than the rest of the US heathcare system. Vastly lower costs relative to the patient population, heathcare choices based around patient needs not their insurance companies. Doctors are both more efficient and less stressed. It even has vastly less paperwork. Occasionally people look into replacing it with something else, but it never goes anywhere because it just works even in the US.
  - jki275 8y ago
    How much experience do you have with the VA?
    - Retric 8y ago
      Quite a bit, with people that use the VA and people that work there, and a fair knowledge of it’s cost and performance. Why, was their something specific you wanted to know? Or was that a low effort attack?
      - jki275 8y ago
        So you know some people who know something about the VA. That's what I thought.
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>national service >treats human beings with dignity and humanity. Anyone who's been to the RMV knows you can't have your cake and eat it too.

jki275 8y ago

You haven't had much experience with governments if you think a national health service is going to treat people with dignity and humanity.

jlangenauer 8y ago
Have you ever experienced care with the NHS in the UK? Or Australia's public health service? Or Germany's universal health care? I have, and in all 3 cases, I've seen exceptional care from professional doctors, nurses and support staff delivered with dignity, humanity and care. Your statement is pure ideology.
- jki275 8y ago
  No, I've been under government health care for the majority of my adult life in the US. I know exactly how it works, and it's abysmal.
  - Delmania 8y ago
    No you haven't. The ACA is not government run healthcare by a long shot. Medicare and Medicaid tend to be immensely popular.
    - jki275 8y ago
      Not talking about ACA. The ACA has existed for what, about six years? I've been active duty military my entire adult life, over 20 years, the military healthcare system is the ideal system you're advocating for. I'm an expert in how horrible it is.
      - noir-york 8y ago
        The VA is not fit for purpose. I don't blame you for thinking that govt. run services suck but frankly how the US treats its veterans (not just medical health but also pensions, etc) is shocking.
      - graeme 8y ago
        FWIW, it sounds like veteran's health care in the us is more top down than most "government" health programs in other countries. All the staff are VA employees, right? In Canada, by contrast, the doctors and hospitals tend to be private. The government pays, and sets price schedules, but they don't directly control care. It's obviously a bit more complicated than that, but the public system sounds much less centralized than your VA health system.
      - justinclift 8y ago
        > the military healthcare system is the ideal system you're advocating for ... Hmmm, it sounds more like a terrible implementation, whereas some of the other implementations are generally decent?
        Karunamon 8y ago
        That depends on if the implementation details are country and culture-specific. Knowing what I know of the VA and my former service roommate’s experiences with them, I can’t really blame people for thinking any such system run by our government expanded to more people would never be efficient or better. Something something better the devil you know...
      - howard941 8y ago
        Just to be clear are you unhappy with active duty medical service provided by active service members to other active service members? Tri-Care? VA? It sounds like the first
        jki275 8y ago
        Both are horrible. Medicare and Medicaid are almost as bad from what I've seen.
  - ska 8y ago
    Experience how parts of it works currently in the US is very far from knowing what is possible.
  - arbitrary_name 8y ago
    Sorry buddy, lived in Germany, uk, nz, aus and am now in the us dealing with a family member going through terminal illness. All i can say is you are wildly off base, we're putting my dad on an international flight to save him 200k on treatment costs (immunotherapy). Same shit, different system, fully funded and no out of pocket cost compared to the us of a. Keep your system, its failing.
lowercased 8y ago
If it doesn't, it's possible, through voting, to change how that operates. There's absolutely nothing that can be done in the 'free market' which would have any impact on providers/insurance companies.
- jki275 8y ago
  If you believe voting changes how government operates, you haven't been paying attention. The powers are entrenched and voting does little to change anything in government anymore. We don't have a free market health care system anyway, it's a hodgepodge of regulation and absurdity today. Making it single payer would simplify that situation, but claiming it would add dignity to the process is just uninformed.
  - Delmania 8y ago
    If you actual compare the data and spout outdated and trite political philosophies, healthcare systems that have significant government involvement tend to be more effective and offer a better quality of care for the money spent than free market solutions. Policies should be made based on data and facts, not sure political philosophy coined years before any of these issues became apparent.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - noir-york 8y ago
    > If you believe voting changes how government operates, you haven't been paying attention. The powers are entrenched and voting does little to change anything in government anymore. I agree with you there in the context of the US. What desperately needs changing is campaign finance. Lobbying, Citizens United, etc has completely ruined politics in the US.
    - jki275 8y ago
      What needs changing is term limits. One should not be able to spend 40 years in Congress or the Senate.
noir-york 8y ago
To the contrary I have extensive experience with governments and I happen to live in a country with a well funded national health service. My own mother uses the service regularly (heart / digestive system conditions) and she always receives excellent care. If where you live has a bad healthcare system or ineffective government, you need to look at the local conditions and please don't generalise. Maybe a positive attitude that government (which is after all, us) can be a force of good would be a good start.
- kodablah 8y ago
  > you need to look at the local conditions and please don't generalise Presumably, since the context is US healthcare, maybe the commenter meant "governments" inside the US. At the least, it's not worth assuming they meant every government everywhere for all time given the context. Please don't generalize. > Maybe a positive attitude that government (which is after all, us) can be a force of good would be a good start. Amusing that such a general statement about government follows a statement about not making general statements about government. Experiences and governments vary wildly. Benefits of support/trust attitudes versus the opposite also vary wildly with differing levels of success.
Retric 8y ago
It gets dumped on bur the US Veterans Affars system works much better than the rest of the US heathcare system. Vastly lower costs relative to the patient population, heathcare choices based around patient needs not their insurance companies. Doctors are both more efficient and less stressed. It even has vastly less paperwork. Occasionally people look into replacing it with something else, but it never goes anywhere because it just works even in the US.
- jki275 8y ago
  How much experience do you have with the VA?
  - Retric 8y ago
    Quite a bit, with people that use the VA and people that work there, and a fair knowledge of it’s cost and performance. Why, was their something specific you wanted to know? Or was that a low effort attack?
    - jki275 8y ago
      So you know some people who know something about the VA. That's what I thought.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

>national service >treats human beings with dignity and humanity. Anyone who's been to the RMV knows you can't have your cake and eat it too.