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This implies that US can't reach the data from Huawei. So it seems that Huawei is the safest option for any US and European citizen. I'd rather have my data s

This implies that US can't reach the data from Huawei. So it seems that Huawei is the safest option for any US and European citizen. I'd rather have my data safe with the Chinese government, a country that is on the other side of the globe and has practically zero influence on my life, that sharing it with the US or my own governments, which are there, and can make my life hell for any or no reason at all, and have the means to actually hurt me. And yes, if I can't avoid it, I'd much rather share my internet search history with an unknown entity on the other side of the world, than with my own wife.

Gorbzel 8y ago
This might be the stupidest rationalization ever posted on HN.
- tylerl 8y ago
  ...which is saying something.
detaro 8y ago
In the Snowden leaks there was a bunch of evidence that US intelligence at least had deep access to Huawei: https://mashable.com/2014/03/22/nsa-huawei/ https://mashable.com/2014/03/22/nsa-huawei/
- SwellJoe 8y ago
  A system with a backdoor is a system exploitable by a high capability attacker, like most major state intelligence agencies.
  - Jyaif 8y ago
    Not if the output of the backdoor is encrypted.
    - Retric 8y ago
      Depends on if you have the keys or not.
      - jamescostian 8y ago
        Unless you have massive computational power and manage to brute-force your way to get the keys
    - SwellJoe 8y ago
      Doesn't matter (much). High capability attackers can, and do, place agents within major infrastructure companies to figure out stuff like this. If there is a backdoor, it is virtually guaranteed to be compromised by more than one actor eventually, and they're likely to share the data (if not the access) with their intelligence allies. Sometimes, companies willingly provide the access (e.g. NSA closet at AT&T), other times, it is more sneakily obtained. But, a system with a backdoor is much more likely to be compromised than a system without one. Edit: I should be clear that any closed source infrastructure is potentially subject to the problem of infiltration. But, a company intentionally putting a hole in the system makes the job even easier. The opportunities for an infiltrator to poke a secret hole into the system are much smaller than the opportunities for obtaining the key to an already existent hole. A hole that is protected from discovery by the company itself is much less likely to be detected by other teams, etc. I mean, to really make a secret hole, you need things like process and network activity statuses to ignore you, logging to not see you, you can't show up in an obvious way on the filesystem, etc. You probably have to have cooperation across at least a few subsystems. It's much easier to exploit an already exploited system, is what I'm trying to say, because you don't actually have to exploit the system, anymore, just the people/organization who builds the system and people are easier to crack than encryption keys.
balibebas 8y ago
Your logic is smart, but flawed. The best defense is openness when you lack the control to air gap, in which case you should expose your data to the two highest bidders.
mensetmanusman 8y ago
That would appear the best option assuming none of your data has business or monetary value, as their intelligence service is tasked with sharing any trade secrets with relevant state business partners. This is strictly forbidden in US intelligence policy.
kccqzy 8y ago
Reminds me of a joke where a sysadmin recommends installing several firewalls from different countries; Huawei to keep out the Americans, Cisco to keep out the Chinese, and something else.
ziont 8y ago
The devil you know is better than the devil you don't.
- oAlbe 8y ago
  In this case, it's more like "the devil you know" vs "the devil which impacts you less".
liftbigweights 8y ago
> I'd rather have my data safe with the Chinese government, a country that is on the other side of the globe and has practically zero influence on my life, that sharing it with the US or my own governments, which are there, and can make my life hell for any or no reason at all, and have the means to actually hurt me. That's an interesting take, but you are assuming china's influence won't keep growing. Or more worrisome, what if china, EU, Russia and the US decide to share data in the future. The only way to be "safe and free" is legislation curbing intelligence agencies snooping on people. Unfortunately, these intelligence agencies appear to be operating above or beyond the law.
clatan 8y ago
The alternatives aren't US companies, they are NOKIA and Ericsson
wu-ikkyu 8y ago
I can't tell if this is a satirical post or not? >I'd rather have my data safe with the Chinese government What makes you think (y)our data wouldn't be sold to the highest global bidder or hacked? >a country that is on the other side of the globe It's called the world wide web for a reason. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLA_Unit_61398 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLA_Unit_61398 >practically zero influence on my life Western countries are very much influenced by China. >sharing it with the US or my own governments, which are there, and can make my life hell for any or no reason at all, and have the means to actually hurt me. Given all of your personal private data, anyone around the world with a computer has the means to actually hurt you.

Gorbzel 8y ago

This might be the stupidest rationalization ever posted on HN.

tylerl 8y ago
...which is saying something.

detaro 8y ago

In the Snowden leaks there was a bunch of evidence that US intelligence at least had deep access to Huawei: https://mashable.com/2014/03/22/nsa-huawei/ https://mashable.com/2014/03/22/nsa-huawei/

SwellJoe 8y ago
A system with a backdoor is a system exploitable by a high capability attacker, like most major state intelligence agencies.
- Jyaif 8y ago
  Not if the output of the backdoor is encrypted.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Depends on if you have the keys or not.
    - jamescostian 8y ago
      Unless you have massive computational power and manage to brute-force your way to get the keys
  - SwellJoe 8y ago
    Doesn't matter (much). High capability attackers can, and do, place agents within major infrastructure companies to figure out stuff like this. If there is a backdoor, it is virtually guaranteed to be compromised by more than one actor eventually, and they're likely to share the data (if not the access) with their intelligence allies. Sometimes, companies willingly provide the access (e.g. NSA closet at AT&T), other times, it is more sneakily obtained. But, a system with a backdoor is much more likely to be compromised than a system without one. Edit: I should be clear that any closed source infrastructure is potentially subject to the problem of infiltration. But, a company intentionally putting a hole in the system makes the job even easier. The opportunities for an infiltrator to poke a secret hole into the system are much smaller than the opportunities for obtaining the key to an already existent hole. A hole that is protected from discovery by the company itself is much less likely to be detected by other teams, etc. I mean, to really make a secret hole, you need things like process and network activity statuses to ignore you, logging to not see you, you can't show up in an obvious way on the filesystem, etc. You probably have to have cooperation across at least a few subsystems. It's much easier to exploit an already exploited system, is what I'm trying to say, because you don't actually have to exploit the system, anymore, just the people/organization who builds the system and people are easier to crack than encryption keys.

balibebas 8y ago

Your logic is smart, but flawed. The best defense is openness when you lack the control to air gap, in which case you should expose your data to the two highest bidders.

mensetmanusman 8y ago

That would appear the best option assuming none of your data has business or monetary value, as their intelligence service is tasked with sharing any trade secrets with relevant state business partners. This is strictly forbidden in US intelligence policy.

kccqzy 8y ago

Reminds me of a joke where a sysadmin recommends installing several firewalls from different countries; Huawei to keep out the Americans, Cisco to keep out the Chinese, and something else.

ziont 8y ago

The devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

oAlbe 8y ago
In this case, it's more like "the devil you know" vs "the devil which impacts you less".

liftbigweights 8y ago

> I'd rather have my data safe with the Chinese government, a country that is on the other side of the globe and has practically zero influence on my life, that sharing it with the US or my own governments, which are there, and can make my life hell for any or no reason at all, and have the means to actually hurt me. That's an interesting take, but you are assuming china's influence won't keep growing. Or more worrisome, what if china, EU, Russia and the US decide to share data in the future. The only way to be "safe and free" is legislation curbing intelligence agencies snooping on people. Unfortunately, these intelligence agencies appear to be operating above or beyond the law.

clatan 8y ago

The alternatives aren't US companies, they are NOKIA and Ericsson

wu-ikkyu 8y ago

I can't tell if this is a satirical post or not? >I'd rather have my data safe with the Chinese government What makes you think (y)our data wouldn't be sold to the highest global bidder or hacked? >a country that is on the other side of the globe It's called the world wide web for a reason. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLA_Unit_61398 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLA_Unit_61398 >practically zero influence on my life Western countries are very much influenced by China. >sharing it with the US or my own governments, which are there, and can make my life hell for any or no reason at all, and have the means to actually hurt me. Given all of your personal private data, anyone around the world with a computer has the means to actually hurt you.