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Do you think you are acomplishing more because of this service? I think they should start with a lower fee and charge x more every time the user fails to compl

Do you think you are acomplishing more because of this service? I think they should start with a lower fee and charge x more every time the user fails to complete a task, on time. People need incentive to finish something. Not sure if someone emailing you is enough

nitrogen 8y ago
Unfortunately that also sounds like an even stronger incentive to cancel the service. But I guess everyone is motivated differently.
dwd 8y ago
Sounds like good motivation to do shit work just to get it done on time. Inversely, offering rewards can be just as counterproductive. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/27/opinion/sunday/science-rewards-behavior.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/27/opinion/sunday/science-re... If it helps you maintain intrinsic motivation then it may be of benefit. Maybe depending on the person a gentle reminder or a wakeup call works best, but the motivation shouldn't be focussed on getting a pat on the back or to avoid someone yelling at you.
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  > Sounds like good motivation to do shit work just to get it done on time. You say this like it's obviously a bad idea. Why? The more work you do, the better it will be, even if you're not trying for any particular quality level. Most people have much more of a problem with the amount of the work they do than with the quality. I read of an experiment conducted on a college pottery class. Half of the class was told they would be graded on the quality of the pots they produced. The other half was told their grade would be determined by gathering all the pots they turned in, smashing them, and weighing the pile of shards. The heavier the pile, the better the grade. The grade-by-weight group turned in higher-quality pots.
  - louhike 8y ago
    > You say this like it's obviously a bad idea. Why? I think the article he cites answers this question.
    - sobani 8y ago
      As far as I can tell the article basically says: If you reward people for doing something, they will stop liking to do it and quality will suffer. BAAS helps people to do something they set out to do, but can't get themselves to actually do it. It seems to me it doesn't really matter if you start to like it less, since you already don't like it enough to get started. And the quality point is moot, since it's better to have something shitty (that you can then improve), than have nothing at all. Don't forget that actually getting started is the most important part of doing something. An effective way to finally clean up the kitchen is not to plan 2 hours for it, but to just take 2 minutes to wipe the countertop. Before you know it, while wiping the countertop you move stuff back to their proper place and two hours later the kitchen is done. And if not, then at least the countertop is clean again, which was better than leaving it dirty.
  - brianmcc 8y ago
    I remember hearing of this before - I think it tells us a huge amount about how best to achieve our goals, or to coach others in that regard. For example: ask a team to build a software project with excellent design and best practices and they may hit "analysis paralysis". Ask them to build perhaps 5 distinct - but cheap and disposable - implementations and you might find they get a much better idea of how to do things "right" very quickly. Note to self: remember this for future use!
    - dwd 8y ago
      > excellent design and best practices Sounds like a sure fire way to spend all the time on premature optimisation. Scott Guthrie at Microsoft used to talk about rapid prototyping, and to always throw away the prototype code and redo from scratch. Never keep the prototype, and especially don't just push it straight into production.
NewsAware 8y ago
This does disalign goals of the user (get stuff done) and service provider (more money if someone fails as long as he is successful enough not to churn) though

nitrogen 8y ago

Unfortunately that also sounds like an even stronger incentive to cancel the service. But I guess everyone is motivated differently.

dwd 8y ago

Sounds like good motivation to do shit work just to get it done on time. Inversely, offering rewards can be just as counterproductive. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/27/opinion/sunday/science-rewards-behavior.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/27/opinion/sunday/science-re... If it helps you maintain intrinsic motivation then it may be of benefit. Maybe depending on the person a gentle reminder or a wakeup call works best, but the motivation shouldn't be focussed on getting a pat on the back or to avoid someone yelling at you.

thaumasiotes 8y ago
> Sounds like good motivation to do shit work just to get it done on time. You say this like it's obviously a bad idea. Why? The more work you do, the better it will be, even if you're not trying for any particular quality level. Most people have much more of a problem with the amount of the work they do than with the quality. I read of an experiment conducted on a college pottery class. Half of the class was told they would be graded on the quality of the pots they produced. The other half was told their grade would be determined by gathering all the pots they turned in, smashing them, and weighing the pile of shards. The heavier the pile, the better the grade. The grade-by-weight group turned in higher-quality pots.
- louhike 8y ago
  > You say this like it's obviously a bad idea. Why? I think the article he cites answers this question.
  - sobani 8y ago
    As far as I can tell the article basically says: If you reward people for doing something, they will stop liking to do it and quality will suffer. BAAS helps people to do something they set out to do, but can't get themselves to actually do it. It seems to me it doesn't really matter if you start to like it less, since you already don't like it enough to get started. And the quality point is moot, since it's better to have something shitty (that you can then improve), than have nothing at all. Don't forget that actually getting started is the most important part of doing something. An effective way to finally clean up the kitchen is not to plan 2 hours for it, but to just take 2 minutes to wipe the countertop. Before you know it, while wiping the countertop you move stuff back to their proper place and two hours later the kitchen is done. And if not, then at least the countertop is clean again, which was better than leaving it dirty.
- brianmcc 8y ago
  I remember hearing of this before - I think it tells us a huge amount about how best to achieve our goals, or to coach others in that regard. For example: ask a team to build a software project with excellent design and best practices and they may hit "analysis paralysis". Ask them to build perhaps 5 distinct - but cheap and disposable - implementations and you might find they get a much better idea of how to do things "right" very quickly. Note to self: remember this for future use!
  - dwd 8y ago
    > excellent design and best practices Sounds like a sure fire way to spend all the time on premature optimisation. Scott Guthrie at Microsoft used to talk about rapid prototyping, and to always throw away the prototype code and redo from scratch. Never keep the prototype, and especially don't just push it straight into production.

NewsAware 8y ago

This does disalign goals of the user (get stuff done) and service provider (more money if someone fails as long as he is successful enough not to churn) though