4 ms·

Social credit is already a thing for the people of the west. Where people have to pass various checks for everyday things, so that ideologically wrong people co

Social credit is already a thing for the people of the west. Where people have to pass various checks for everyday things, so that ideologically wrong people could get punished and removed from ideologically right circles by not allowing them to get decent jobs and decent places to live.

lifeisstillgood 8y ago
Social Credit is merely a virtual representation of something that is already very real. Our reputations precede us, a decade of hard drinking, abuse and fighting in pubs will earn you a social score amoungst your local area, as will a decade of volunteer work with a local charity. Putting those online is not inherently a stupid or bad thing. Putting them online without a means to view them, without controls on who can view them, without ability to redress wrongs or corrections, without institutions that support it, yes that's crazy. We are never going back to a world where only your neighbours knew what you were like, but we do not either have to go to a world where only the Stasi or ad-tech firms do too.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  Nobody seriously thinks that the Chinese system is your "local reputation," it's an East-German style reporting system where everyone informs on everyone else and only the state's interests are served.
  - lifeisstillgood 8y ago
    Yes, I know. But the point is that a cctv camera that is accessible only to the police is the same camera that is open to the web. It's the use not the technology.
- ENGNR 8y ago
  Your local reputation is relative, there’s maybe a different version of it for every pair of eyes that assess you THE Chinese credit score is objective, there’s only one. It’s merely what the government thinks of you, with no room for disagreement, with the consequences of that assessment automatically enforced throughout all of China
- acct1771 8y ago
  After reading your comment, we immediately need to reject the term "social credit" and instead adopt the phrase "government credit". As discussed, in true social credit, many people/citizens reporting their accounts of an individual's credit to the "centralized image" would be similar. Their government-held system is not.
krapp 8y ago
That isn't social credit. Social credit would be when you're turned down for a bank loan because the NSA scans your Facebook profile and scores you as a possible political dissident because you liked too many anti-Trump memes. But that isn't happening in "the west" (yet.) No one is being blacklisted across the "the west" from housing or employment because of wrong-think. At least not systemically. What you seem to be describing is simply society, and the fact that speech in a free society can have social consequences.
- fjsolwmv 8y ago
  People in the west got blacklisted from housing amf employment for wrong-color, systematically, until very recently.
  - krapp 8y ago
    Yes, but that's not what the GP was talking about.
- wu-ikkyu 8y ago
  In terms of end result for the individual, what difference does it make if an internet mob blacklists you from employment for thoughtcrime or if a government bureaucracy does it?

lifeisstillgood 8y ago

Social Credit is merely a virtual representation of something that is already very real. Our reputations precede us, a decade of hard drinking, abuse and fighting in pubs will earn you a social score amoungst your local area, as will a decade of volunteer work with a local charity. Putting those online is not inherently a stupid or bad thing. Putting them online without a means to view them, without controls on who can view them, without ability to redress wrongs or corrections, without institutions that support it, yes that's crazy. We are never going back to a world where only your neighbours knew what you were like, but we do not either have to go to a world where only the Stasi or ad-tech firms do too.

whatshisface 8y ago
Nobody seriously thinks that the Chinese system is your "local reputation," it's an East-German style reporting system where everyone informs on everyone else and only the state's interests are served.
- lifeisstillgood 8y ago
  Yes, I know. But the point is that a cctv camera that is accessible only to the police is the same camera that is open to the web. It's the use not the technology.
ENGNR 8y ago
Your local reputation is relative, there’s maybe a different version of it for every pair of eyes that assess you THE Chinese credit score is objective, there’s only one. It’s merely what the government thinks of you, with no room for disagreement, with the consequences of that assessment automatically enforced throughout all of China
acct1771 8y ago
After reading your comment, we immediately need to reject the term "social credit" and instead adopt the phrase "government credit". As discussed, in true social credit, many people/citizens reporting their accounts of an individual's credit to the "centralized image" would be similar. Their government-held system is not.

krapp 8y ago

That isn't social credit. Social credit would be when you're turned down for a bank loan because the NSA scans your Facebook profile and scores you as a possible political dissident because you liked too many anti-Trump memes. But that isn't happening in "the west" (yet.) No one is being blacklisted across the "the west" from housing or employment because of wrong-think. At least not systemically. What you seem to be describing is simply society, and the fact that speech in a free society can have social consequences.

fjsolwmv 8y ago
People in the west got blacklisted from housing amf employment for wrong-color, systematically, until very recently.
- krapp 8y ago
  Yes, but that's not what the GP was talking about.
wu-ikkyu 8y ago
In terms of end result for the individual, what difference does it make if an internet mob blacklists you from employment for thoughtcrime or if a government bureaucracy does it?