5 ms·

Can't understand why developers like Macs (except, of course, if you're doing iOS or Mac dev). I have been using a Dell Precision M3800 with Ubuntu for the las

by 725686 8y ago

Can't understand why developers like Macs (except, of course, if you're doing iOS or Mac dev). I have been using a Dell Precision M3800 with Ubuntu for the last 4 years and it still rocks. I just upgraded memory and SSD HD. Couln't be happier.

whttheuuu 8y ago
Really? You can't understand why the Macbook is the de-facto standard at pretty much every single startup tech company? MacOS is basically a polished version of Ubuntu with (much, much) better user interface.
sagichmal 8y ago
MacOS is just phenomenally, over-the-top better than Linux as a day-to-day operating system.
- enraged_camel 8y ago
  I also think it's much better than Windows 10. I use both heavily every day, and despite the fact that the MacOS I use is on an MBA 2011, I prefer it to my modern Windows 10 machine.
- danieldk 8y ago
  Not only macOS itself, but also many applications. OmniGraffle, Little Snitch, the Affinity apps, Alfred/Launchbar, Arq, Tweetbot, Paprika, Deckset, etc. (I use both macOS and Linux on the desktop.)
- bowlich 8y ago
  I guess to each their own. I've slowly grown to hate OSX on my MacBook in comparison to the ease of use that I get out of my daily driver -- Ubuntu on my desktop. OSX seems far too opinionated on things. It keeps installing Itunes even though I've gone through and deleted it repeatedly. It won't let me uninstall all of the Apple software that I have zero use for (I have no use for a word processor suite). I spend 100% of my time either on Firefox, Thunderbird and the Terminal. I have nearly zero use for any other gui applications and would like to uninstall everything down to the bare minimum of applications and processes to do my work. Too many terminal applications are subtly different between what I have available on Linux vs OSX, and I'm frequently having to resort to compiling them myself to get feature parity. Shell scripts need to be every so slightly altered to account for the fact that its running on OSX and not Linux -- I'd like to be able to write it once and then run it on my dev machine, virtual machine, and server without needing to make these changes. OSX likes to liter hidden files all over the place that I need to remember to exclude from git repositories. These are all little things, but they're little things that have grown over the years to really irritate me and I probably won't be doing a MacBook on my next upgrade.
  - dlisboa 8y ago
    "To each their own" is when everything else is equal. I don't think that's the case comparing Linux to macOS. And I've used Linux for close to 8 years of my life, on and off, I'm not an Apple defender. Their OS is just better. I got upset about the things you've said too, after going from Linux to macOS. Linux is much "cleaner" (and FreeBSD even more so). But back on Linux now I get way more upset when Bluetooth doesn't work, when the battery on my laptop isn't recognized (I got a Thinkpad with a removable battery), when the trackpad is glitching. Right now I have a nagging issue that the laptop wont charge when it hits 0% battery unless I unplug it and remove the battery, then plug it again. This is a Thinkpad, which I got specifically because it's said to be hassle-free on Linux. I'd love to complain about hidden files and the bad situation of package management on macOS, that'd be a luxury. I don't think even the most ardent Linux defender can argue macOS isn't miles away as a consumer OS. You have to be in a very specific bubble of distro+hardware for Linux to never crap out some hardware on an upgrade, before even going into the merits of the UI/UX comparison.
    - bowlich 8y ago
      I mean to each their own in terms of your use case may vary based on the UI/UX of your choice. I can see a need for OSX if a big chunk of your workload is going to be in graphic design, front-end development, or some kind of management role where you're spending days looking at spreadsheets or word docs. I'm also not defending Linux as a consumer OS, but as an OS for use in a work environment tuned purposely to maximize the efficiency of an employee working as a developer who is deploying to Linux from OSX. I'm often bewildered as to why I run into so many back-end developers who are deploying to Linux, yet using OSX for their daily driver. I suppose the hardware issues that you cite. I've had the occasional hardware issue, maybe once every two or three years that takes a couple hours to track down and fix. My workflow doesn't really make use of pointing devices, and I've never owned a bluetooth device that I've needed to connect to a workstation, so I haven't come across those issues. Battery would be a horrid pain though.
      - dlisboa 8y ago
        > I'm often bewildered as to why I run into so many back-end developers who are deploying to Linux, yet using OSX for their daily driver. It's very obvious: they use a personal machine for work only 8h a day and want their OS to be usable the other hours of the day and weekends. It's not that they necessarily prefer macOS for programming, but they prefer macOS for everything else they spend most of their time on. Or, alternatively, they have done so for so long they're more productive on macOS (admittedly a worse OS for programming) than Linux. Just think of it like this: my demands from a development environment are much less strict than from a consumer OS. For developing all I need is a terminal and some programs, that's it. For a consumer OS all I need is what every other consumer needs: a functioning system 100% of the time with good usability. It's much easier to run a VM than to constantly fix hardware issues or usability quirks that are out of your control as a user. Your idea seems to make more sense when you use one for work and have a personal notebook for whatever else. Some people can't have that, or just don't want to. That was my original idea when getting a Linux notebook, but when I had to use it as a personal machine it became much less adequate.
- toolz 8y ago
  I couldn't disagree more, but I'm sure everyone is aware that everyone has their opinions. I have given my grandparents windows, mac and linux operating systems. You know which one worked for them the best? Linux, because I was able to configure it to work exactly the way they wanted their everyday computer to work.
garmaine 8y ago
I spend no time having to configure things. They just work. That's huge when I only have so much time in the day/week/year, and I'd rather spend it doing something else (like coding or playing with my kids).
- sjwright 8y ago
  This. Just because I'm a programmer and a sysadmin for many virtual machines and a complex home network, doesn't mean I enjoy being sysadmin on my primary personal computers. I want them to work. If they don't work, my life is upside down until they do. When my BSD router and Linux VMs unexpectedly bugger up after an update, it might be mildly frustrating, but fixing them can be satisfying and occasionally educational.
- hesarenu 8y ago
  you can do the same in ubuntu laptops as well. And if you are a coder then you want any have to configure your mac for whatever language/frameworks you work on.
  - garmaine 8y ago
    I’m not talking about just hardware support. I also mean basic day to day sysadmin tasks and software configuration, and user things like having quick workflows for editing and sharing pictures, etc.
alasdair_ 8y ago
Mostly it's the "I don't want to fuck around getting my graphics drivers working again" or "wait, why is my bluetooth no longer working after an update?" thing. I have an XPS 13 running ubuntu that I use for my personal coding work but I have a macbook pro for work just to minimize driver issues.
reilly3000 8y ago
What a great machine. My only complaint with mine is that the touchpad has started to stand off from its place, and generally is less responsive compared to its Mac counterpart. I haven't found a task it doesnt excel at yet.
- 725686 8y ago
  The touchpad problem is because the battery is expanding. It is very important that you replace it ASAP. I had mine replaced as part of the warranty.
  - reilly3000 8y ago
    Thank you so much for letting me know!
nik736 8y ago
Looking at my Dock I can tell you why: Finder - Spark - Safari (iCloud Keychain and iCloud in general) - Paw - Postico - Transmit - Notes App - Pages - Sketch - Photoshop There is nothing (for me) that compares to Finder, a proper email client, my favorite browser, Postico, Sketch and Photoshop on Linux. There is nothing on Linux that I don't have on macOS, and of course: it simply works.
- bredren 8y ago
  Paw is good.
IggleSniggle 8y ago
I tried to do the Ubuntu thing just on principle. Got irritated that every application had its own keyboard conventions, and also periodically had UI blocking actions which was annoying. So I tried Bash on Ubuntu on Windows (Linux Subsystem) and that came very close to what I wanted...but the bifurcated workflow just didn’t quite suit me and I find all the ads on Windows obnoxious. I’m happiest on macOS, and it’s my preference when cost is not a consideration.
- ZeWaren 8y ago
  When I tried Ubuntu a few years ago, I was very irritated by the fact that many apps did not work with the keyboard at all. It was mouse or nothing (except for text fields).
ayoisaiah 8y ago
I agree. I use an XPS 13 9360, and everything works well with Ubuntu 18.04. There are a few quirks here and there with the way some applications scale on the QHD+ screen (which looks amazing by the way), but other than that, not much to complain about. Battery life is 5-7 hours depending on what you're doing which I think is fair enough.
qudat 8y ago
It's simple: no laptop compares to the mac. Believe me, I want to use a different laptop. There is nothing on the market with the build quality, touchpad, screen, and operating system. The developer community for macs has completely dominated the market for so long that virtually everything I need is first-class supported.

by 725686 8y ago

whttheuuu 8y ago

Really? You can't understand why the Macbook is the de-facto standard at pretty much every single startup tech company? MacOS is basically a polished version of Ubuntu with (much, much) better user interface.

sagichmal 8y ago

MacOS is just phenomenally, over-the-top better than Linux as a day-to-day operating system.

enraged_camel 8y ago
I also think it's much better than Windows 10. I use both heavily every day, and despite the fact that the MacOS I use is on an MBA 2011, I prefer it to my modern Windows 10 machine.
danieldk 8y ago
Not only macOS itself, but also many applications. OmniGraffle, Little Snitch, the Affinity apps, Alfred/Launchbar, Arq, Tweetbot, Paprika, Deckset, etc. (I use both macOS and Linux on the desktop.)
bowlich 8y ago
I guess to each their own. I've slowly grown to hate OSX on my MacBook in comparison to the ease of use that I get out of my daily driver -- Ubuntu on my desktop. OSX seems far too opinionated on things. It keeps installing Itunes even though I've gone through and deleted it repeatedly. It won't let me uninstall all of the Apple software that I have zero use for (I have no use for a word processor suite). I spend 100% of my time either on Firefox, Thunderbird and the Terminal. I have nearly zero use for any other gui applications and would like to uninstall everything down to the bare minimum of applications and processes to do my work. Too many terminal applications are subtly different between what I have available on Linux vs OSX, and I'm frequently having to resort to compiling them myself to get feature parity. Shell scripts need to be every so slightly altered to account for the fact that its running on OSX and not Linux -- I'd like to be able to write it once and then run it on my dev machine, virtual machine, and server without needing to make these changes. OSX likes to liter hidden files all over the place that I need to remember to exclude from git repositories. These are all little things, but they're little things that have grown over the years to really irritate me and I probably won't be doing a MacBook on my next upgrade.
- dlisboa 8y ago
  "To each their own" is when everything else is equal. I don't think that's the case comparing Linux to macOS. And I've used Linux for close to 8 years of my life, on and off, I'm not an Apple defender. Their OS is just better. I got upset about the things you've said too, after going from Linux to macOS. Linux is much "cleaner" (and FreeBSD even more so). But back on Linux now I get way more upset when Bluetooth doesn't work, when the battery on my laptop isn't recognized (I got a Thinkpad with a removable battery), when the trackpad is glitching. Right now I have a nagging issue that the laptop wont charge when it hits 0% battery unless I unplug it and remove the battery, then plug it again. This is a Thinkpad, which I got specifically because it's said to be hassle-free on Linux. I'd love to complain about hidden files and the bad situation of package management on macOS, that'd be a luxury. I don't think even the most ardent Linux defender can argue macOS isn't miles away as a consumer OS. You have to be in a very specific bubble of distro+hardware for Linux to never crap out some hardware on an upgrade, before even going into the merits of the UI/UX comparison.
  - bowlich 8y ago
    I mean to each their own in terms of your use case may vary based on the UI/UX of your choice. I can see a need for OSX if a big chunk of your workload is going to be in graphic design, front-end development, or some kind of management role where you're spending days looking at spreadsheets or word docs. I'm also not defending Linux as a consumer OS, but as an OS for use in a work environment tuned purposely to maximize the efficiency of an employee working as a developer who is deploying to Linux from OSX. I'm often bewildered as to why I run into so many back-end developers who are deploying to Linux, yet using OSX for their daily driver. I suppose the hardware issues that you cite. I've had the occasional hardware issue, maybe once every two or three years that takes a couple hours to track down and fix. My workflow doesn't really make use of pointing devices, and I've never owned a bluetooth device that I've needed to connect to a workstation, so I haven't come across those issues. Battery would be a horrid pain though.
    - dlisboa 8y ago
      > I'm often bewildered as to why I run into so many back-end developers who are deploying to Linux, yet using OSX for their daily driver. It's very obvious: they use a personal machine for work only 8h a day and want their OS to be usable the other hours of the day and weekends. It's not that they necessarily prefer macOS for programming, but they prefer macOS for everything else they spend most of their time on. Or, alternatively, they have done so for so long they're more productive on macOS (admittedly a worse OS for programming) than Linux. Just think of it like this: my demands from a development environment are much less strict than from a consumer OS. For developing all I need is a terminal and some programs, that's it. For a consumer OS all I need is what every other consumer needs: a functioning system 100% of the time with good usability. It's much easier to run a VM than to constantly fix hardware issues or usability quirks that are out of your control as a user. Your idea seems to make more sense when you use one for work and have a personal notebook for whatever else. Some people can't have that, or just don't want to. That was my original idea when getting a Linux notebook, but when I had to use it as a personal machine it became much less adequate.
toolz 8y ago
I couldn't disagree more, but I'm sure everyone is aware that everyone has their opinions. I have given my grandparents windows, mac and linux operating systems. You know which one worked for them the best? Linux, because I was able to configure it to work exactly the way they wanted their everyday computer to work.

garmaine 8y ago

I spend no time having to configure things. They just work. That's huge when I only have so much time in the day/week/year, and I'd rather spend it doing something else (like coding or playing with my kids).

sjwright 8y ago
This. Just because I'm a programmer and a sysadmin for many virtual machines and a complex home network, doesn't mean I enjoy being sysadmin on my primary personal computers. I want them to work. If they don't work, my life is upside down until they do. When my BSD router and Linux VMs unexpectedly bugger up after an update, it might be mildly frustrating, but fixing them can be satisfying and occasionally educational.
hesarenu 8y ago
you can do the same in ubuntu laptops as well. And if you are a coder then you want any have to configure your mac for whatever language/frameworks you work on.
- garmaine 8y ago
  I’m not talking about just hardware support. I also mean basic day to day sysadmin tasks and software configuration, and user things like having quick workflows for editing and sharing pictures, etc.

alasdair_ 8y ago

Mostly it's the "I don't want to fuck around getting my graphics drivers working again" or "wait, why is my bluetooth no longer working after an update?" thing. I have an XPS 13 running ubuntu that I use for my personal coding work but I have a macbook pro for work just to minimize driver issues.

reilly3000 8y ago

What a great machine. My only complaint with mine is that the touchpad has started to stand off from its place, and generally is less responsive compared to its Mac counterpart. I haven't found a task it doesnt excel at yet.

725686 8y ago
The touchpad problem is because the battery is expanding. It is very important that you replace it ASAP. I had mine replaced as part of the warranty.
- reilly3000 8y ago
  Thank you so much for letting me know!

nik736 8y ago

Looking at my Dock I can tell you why: Finder - Spark - Safari (iCloud Keychain and iCloud in general) - Paw - Postico - Transmit - Notes App - Pages - Sketch - Photoshop There is nothing (for me) that compares to Finder, a proper email client, my favorite browser, Postico, Sketch and Photoshop on Linux. There is nothing on Linux that I don't have on macOS, and of course: it simply works.

bredren 8y ago
Paw is good.

IggleSniggle 8y ago

I tried to do the Ubuntu thing just on principle. Got irritated that every application had its own keyboard conventions, and also periodically had UI blocking actions which was annoying. So I tried Bash on Ubuntu on Windows (Linux Subsystem) and that came very close to what I wanted...but the bifurcated workflow just didn’t quite suit me and I find all the ads on Windows obnoxious. I’m happiest on macOS, and it’s my preference when cost is not a consideration.

ZeWaren 8y ago
When I tried Ubuntu a few years ago, I was very irritated by the fact that many apps did not work with the keyboard at all. It was mouse or nothing (except for text fields).

ayoisaiah 8y ago

I agree. I use an XPS 13 9360, and everything works well with Ubuntu 18.04. There are a few quirks here and there with the way some applications scale on the QHD+ screen (which looks amazing by the way), but other than that, not much to complain about. Battery life is 5-7 hours depending on what you're doing which I think is fair enough.

qudat 8y ago

It's simple: no laptop compares to the mac. Believe me, I want to use a different laptop. There is nothing on the market with the build quality, touchpad, screen, and operating system. The developer community for macs has completely dominated the market for so long that virtually everything I need is first-class supported.