5 ms·

To find the answer, I would ask, Why are there conferences for other technologies? What are they for? And I think the answer is probably 1) get useful news abo

by SiVal 8y ago

To find the answer, I would ask, Why are there conferences for other technologies? What are they for? And I think the answer is probably 1) get useful news about recent and upcoming changes and 2) to socialize. I'm going to guess--possibly just projecting--that most C developers are older and not terribly interested in meeting new "C friends" or jumping into some hot, new "C startup". That leaves #1. Web/AI-ML/cloud/mobile tech conferences feature speakers from the big tech companies that might reveal, in a talk or a hallway chat, info about which of your problems they are about to solve or to cause. Independent speakers serve a sort of journalist role of gathering intel from the big companies, organizing it, and revealing their findings. It's all about "tell me what I need to know so I can decide what to do". But there isn't much news about C that most C programmers will want to know in order to make decisions. It's almost like news about algebra or, yes, hammers: mature, slow-changing technologies whose changes seldom impact more than a small percentage of users. So without reasons 1 or 2, the answer to why aren't there C conferences is basic and boring: what important purpose would they serve?

lscotte 8y ago
I think there's a third one: To generate hype. C is already established - it's been around long enough that it doesn't need advertising.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Yet many still haven't learned to use lint like tooling, initially developed in 1979.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    Sounds like a good topic for a conference talk ;)
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      It is not for lack of trying, check out the Linux Kernel Summit 2018 talks. The problem is on the receiving end.
kazinator 8y ago
> I'm going to guess--possibly just projecting--that most C developers are older and not terribly interested in meeting new "C friends" or jumping into some hot, new "C startup". Unfortunately that doesn't explain why there are not only aren't C conferences today, but there weren't C conferences 15, 20, 30 years ago.
- SiVal 8y ago
  I was a C programmer 30 years ago, but we didn't attend C conferences for two reasons: 1) programming languages weren't newsworthy enough to generate much buzz. Hardware was the focus of attention, and things like programming languages tended to be features of products, not products themselves. And 2) C was already about 20 years old by that point in any case, so monthly magazines were sufficient to keep up with the changes. We didn't tend to go to Fortran or COBOL conferences, either. We DID go to conferences or expos for things that were buzzy and newsworthy, which meant the exciting new world of microcomputers: Comdex, MacWorld, etc. But the emphasis was on exposition, not conferencing with others, because we got to see exciting, new things with our own eyes, when that was the only way to see them (couldn't "see" things online). We wanted to see them (and they wanted to show them) to inform our decisions. The makers of C tools filled plenty of booths at the "computer expos", though. Twenty years ago, we had started having big language conferences. JavaOne was like a religious revival or political rally, but C was the old devil being vanquished, not the Hope of the Future. And Visual-J++ and C# conferences were counter-political rallies, where C was going away as both sides agreed, but to be replaced by what? The makers of C tools still filled plenty of booths at the hardware expos, but there wasn't much demand for a C conference where we could hear, in person, about how C wasn't actually dead yet. And by 15 years ago, all the hotness that inspires a crowd to gather for a conference was based on changes relevant to the WWW. If C had reinvented itself with shiny, new async networking, web service & e-commerce building blocks, concurrency, and whatever in its standard libraries or some such approach, there definitely WOULD have been C conferences. That would have been big news (and probably a bad choice, but that's a different question.) Without something like that, there is still plenty of demand for C, but little demand for a C conference.
prasanthmj 8y ago
There should be one more reason: businesses that want to sell to that specific category. There will be Hammer conferences if there are companies that make "handle grips" or "hand hammer protectors" who are willing to sponsor such events.
billrobertson42 8y ago
The reason that there is a conference for X is because somebody makes money running a conference for X. Be it directly or indirectly.
- barry-cotter 8y ago
  Yes but the reason there’s someone making money hosting a conference for X is that there’s a demand for a conference on that topic. Why is there a demand for Ruby conferences but not C ones?
Oreb 8y ago
> It’s almost like news about algebra There are plenty of algebra conferences, though. I’ve been to several. :-) I agree with your general point, but algebra isn’t quite as slow-moving as you seem to believe.
- pure-awesome 8y ago
  Perhaps they were thinking of the ordinary equation solving that most people know as algebra, rather than the abstract algebra (group theory etc.) covered in university mathematics courses.
- chestervonwinch 8y ago
  C is the tool, so probably a better analogy would have been to pencils, rather than algebra, which is more in line with OP's sentiment regarding hammers.
pjmlp 8y ago
> what important purpose would they serve? To spread the knowledge how to actually write C code that meets a certain quality level regarding security and safety. And not that writing C89 without any sort of static analyzers is still acceptable practice.

by SiVal 8y ago

lscotte 8y ago

I think there's a third one: To generate hype. C is already established - it's been around long enough that it doesn't need advertising.

pjmlp 8y ago
Yet many still haven't learned to use lint like tooling, initially developed in 1979.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  Sounds like a good topic for a conference talk ;)
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    It is not for lack of trying, check out the Linux Kernel Summit 2018 talks. The problem is on the receiving end.

kazinator 8y ago

> I'm going to guess--possibly just projecting--that most C developers are older and not terribly interested in meeting new "C friends" or jumping into some hot, new "C startup". Unfortunately that doesn't explain why there are not only aren't C conferences today, but there weren't C conferences 15, 20, 30 years ago.

SiVal 8y ago
I was a C programmer 30 years ago, but we didn't attend C conferences for two reasons: 1) programming languages weren't newsworthy enough to generate much buzz. Hardware was the focus of attention, and things like programming languages tended to be features of products, not products themselves. And 2) C was already about 20 years old by that point in any case, so monthly magazines were sufficient to keep up with the changes. We didn't tend to go to Fortran or COBOL conferences, either. We DID go to conferences or expos for things that were buzzy and newsworthy, which meant the exciting new world of microcomputers: Comdex, MacWorld, etc. But the emphasis was on exposition, not conferencing with others, because we got to see exciting, new things with our own eyes, when that was the only way to see them (couldn't "see" things online). We wanted to see them (and they wanted to show them) to inform our decisions. The makers of C tools filled plenty of booths at the "computer expos", though. Twenty years ago, we had started having big language conferences. JavaOne was like a religious revival or political rally, but C was the old devil being vanquished, not the Hope of the Future. And Visual-J++ and C# conferences were counter-political rallies, where C was going away as both sides agreed, but to be replaced by what? The makers of C tools still filled plenty of booths at the hardware expos, but there wasn't much demand for a C conference where we could hear, in person, about how C wasn't actually dead yet. And by 15 years ago, all the hotness that inspires a crowd to gather for a conference was based on changes relevant to the WWW. If C had reinvented itself with shiny, new async networking, web service & e-commerce building blocks, concurrency, and whatever in its standard libraries or some such approach, there definitely WOULD have been C conferences. That would have been big news (and probably a bad choice, but that's a different question.) Without something like that, there is still plenty of demand for C, but little demand for a C conference.

prasanthmj 8y ago

There should be one more reason: businesses that want to sell to that specific category. There will be Hammer conferences if there are companies that make "handle grips" or "hand hammer protectors" who are willing to sponsor such events.

billrobertson42 8y ago

The reason that there is a conference for X is because somebody makes money running a conference for X. Be it directly or indirectly.

barry-cotter 8y ago
Yes but the reason there’s someone making money hosting a conference for X is that there’s a demand for a conference on that topic. Why is there a demand for Ruby conferences but not C ones?

Oreb 8y ago

> It’s almost like news about algebra There are plenty of algebra conferences, though. I’ve been to several. :-) I agree with your general point, but algebra isn’t quite as slow-moving as you seem to believe.

pure-awesome 8y ago
Perhaps they were thinking of the ordinary equation solving that most people know as algebra, rather than the abstract algebra (group theory etc.) covered in university mathematics courses.
chestervonwinch 8y ago
C is the tool, so probably a better analogy would have been to pencils, rather than algebra, which is more in line with OP's sentiment regarding hammers.

pjmlp 8y ago

> what important purpose would they serve? To spread the knowledge how to actually write C code that meets a certain quality level regarding security and safety. And not that writing C89 without any sort of static analyzers is still acceptable practice.