6 ms·

What he did was illegal. Access to the island is restricted for a reason. >>> But Mr. Chau pushed ahead in his kayak, which he had packed with a Bible. After t

What he did was illegal. Access to the island is restricted for a reason. >>> But Mr. Chau pushed ahead in his kayak, which he had packed with a Bible. After that, it is a bit of a mystery what happened. Also, can these evangelists take a break? It's not 1600s anymore.

WhompingWindows 8y ago
Their religion and its proponents teach them to spread the word, they won't take a break. It's what separates Christianity and Islam from the majority of non-proselytizing religions.
- Udik 8y ago
  I don't see catholic christians setting up missions with the primary purpose of proselytizing. In many respects it is true that American evangelical churches are much more retrograde than the Catholic church itself, promoting a brand of religion that is, for example, self-righteous, anti-scientific, and putting particular emphasis on the more archaic and brutal Old Testament.
  - ryanmercer 8y ago
    >I don't see catholic christians setting up missions with the primary purpose of proselytizing. Because they did most of it starting in the middle ages and the Age of Discovery. In fact that's mostly what the Franciscans, Dominicans and Jesuits did in California, South America and Asia from 1500ish to well into the late 1800's.
    - Udik 8y ago
      Of course, I'm talking about the current situation.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > I don't see catholic christians setting up missions with the primary purpose of proselytizing. To the extent that is true, it is a post-Vatican II reform (and proselytization is still an important function of Catholic missionary work, though the method of more persuasion by example.)
    - etrautmann 8y ago
      > persuasion by example A bit of an odd example that the catholic church chooses to set...
  - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
    > I don't see catholic christians setting up missions with the primary purpose of proselytizing. Not in the West. In Africa and Asia, absolutely.
- candiodari 8y ago
  > the majority of non-proselytizing religions I get that you are much more aware of how it works in Christianity and Islam, but there is no majority of non-proselytizing religions. Such a thing cannot exist in a Nash equilibrium. Think about it. All current faiths (and for that matter, ideologies) have spread much faster than people spread. MUCH faster. So they all proselytized. It is sometimes a little bit irritating to hear people make the wildest claims about quite a few religions. Often about Buddhism people make the most outlandish claims, which presumably includes "non-proselytizing" in your comment. Now please don't think I'm singling out Buddhism here, it's just an example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionary#Buddhist_missions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionary#Buddhist_missions
  - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
    You are mistaken. Judaism, at least, does not proselytize. Some branches actively discourage converts, and a few refuse to acknowledge that conversion is even possible for the Gentile-born.
    - ryacko 8y ago
      The branch of Judaism that proselytzed and admitted Gentile converts became Christianity.
      - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
        And the rest did not. The point stands.
oh_sigh 8y ago
He was an adventurer. He would go to remote and weird places all the time, usually without any kind of primordial tribespeople to convert. Odds are he was just on another adventure, rather than him feeling that these people really needed jesus.
- swatkat 8y ago
  The 27-year-old American, identified as John Allen Chau, came to India on a tourist visa but came to the Andaman and Nicobar islands in October with the express purpose of proselytizing, Dependra Pathak, Director General of Police of the Andaman and Nicobar islands, told CNN. "We refuse to call him a tourist. Yes, he came on a tourist visa but he came with a specific purpose to preach on a prohibited island," Pathak said. Chau did not inform the police of his intentions to travel to the island to attempt to convert its inhabitants. https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/21/asia/andaman-nicobar-us-missionary-killed-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/21/asia/andaman-nicobar-us-missi...
  - oh_sigh 8y ago
    Yes, I'm aware of the statements of the Indian authorities. I'm curious if they know this or if they are assuming based on some statements he made - like about how god gave him the power to travel to remote and dangerous places, or because he had a bible on him(which many Christians carry). Did Chau learn any Sentinelese? How was he planning on doing the proselytizing? Also, not to nitpick, but the article does have other errors. For example, it says "Just more than a dozen people" live on the island, whereas all sources I can find say between 50 and 400 people live there.
module0000 8y ago
>> Also, can these evangelists take a break? It's not 1600s anymore. One of the Christian figurehead's final commands is paraphrased as "Go and preach the good news to everyone in the world". I speculate that's what these people are doing.
iBelieve 8y ago
If you were convinced that something is true and that it has eternal consequences for those who reject or don't hear that message, how could you _not_ want to tell everyone about it, going to the ends of the earth and risking life itself so others could hear that message?
- thunfischbrot 8y ago
  Although if you believe in an omnipotent god, would you believe that she/he would not give those a chance who did not here of her/him? Why the need to actively push it onto those who are currently unaware?
  - sbarre 8y ago
    That my friend is a level of self-reflection and self-awareness that is not as common as you'd imagine.
    - incompletude 8y ago
      Our fellow human comrades in the country next door have a very similar belief system that contains the same defense mechanisms. Spread the word and fight the enemies of their deity. This is self-reflection: everyone believes what fits better to one, don't push your shit over others or risky getting killed with bows and arrows, and every now and then bombs. Religions are very creative ancient defense mechanisms. It exists for you to have bonds to your group, for you to survive, and protecting the belief system is to protect your own. But this is not 1600 anymore, time to grow up. Take the good stuff and throw the toxic shit behind or put it all behind.
  - iBelieve 8y ago
    If you're a theist who believes in a "god", sure, you can believe whatever you want, including that god won't punish anyone. But for Christians, we are convinced that the Bible is true based on evidence and reason, and therefore can only believe what it teaches. For Christians, the answer is simple: everyone has sinned, God is just, and must punish sin. Lack of knowledge of God is no excuse, for everyone knows that God exists and everyone has rejected Him. No one deserves to go heaven; no one can get to heaven by anything they do. The only way to heaven is through Jesus, by trusting in Him as our only hope of forgiveness and salvation. That is why we must go to the ends of the earth, from the largest cities to the most remote islands, to share Christianity with everyone we meet, often giving our lives to spread that message.
subjectsigma 8y ago
>Also, can these evangelists take a break? It's not 1600s anymore. I don't know, the Saudis just started letting women drive earlier this year. People do lots of weird things for religion - some of them you might not agree with, and some of them might be straight up dumb. The year doesn't matter.
scruple 8y ago
Well, it's made much more clear what his intentions most likely actually were in the BBC [0] article: > "People thought he is a missionary because he had mentioned his position on God and that he was a believer on social media or somewhere online. But in a strict sense, he was not a missionary. > "He was an adventurer. His intention was to meet the aborigines." [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46293221 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46293221

WhompingWindows 8y ago

Their religion and its proponents teach them to spread the word, they won't take a break. It's what separates Christianity and Islam from the majority of non-proselytizing religions.

Udik 8y ago
I don't see catholic christians setting up missions with the primary purpose of proselytizing. In many respects it is true that American evangelical churches are much more retrograde than the Catholic church itself, promoting a brand of religion that is, for example, self-righteous, anti-scientific, and putting particular emphasis on the more archaic and brutal Old Testament.
- ryanmercer 8y ago
  >I don't see catholic christians setting up missions with the primary purpose of proselytizing. Because they did most of it starting in the middle ages and the Age of Discovery. In fact that's mostly what the Franciscans, Dominicans and Jesuits did in California, South America and Asia from 1500ish to well into the late 1800's.
  - Udik 8y ago
    Of course, I'm talking about the current situation.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > I don't see catholic christians setting up missions with the primary purpose of proselytizing. To the extent that is true, it is a post-Vatican II reform (and proselytization is still an important function of Catholic missionary work, though the method of more persuasion by example.)
  - etrautmann 8y ago
    > persuasion by example A bit of an odd example that the catholic church chooses to set...
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  > I don't see catholic christians setting up missions with the primary purpose of proselytizing. Not in the West. In Africa and Asia, absolutely.
candiodari 8y ago
> the majority of non-proselytizing religions I get that you are much more aware of how it works in Christianity and Islam, but there is no majority of non-proselytizing religions. Such a thing cannot exist in a Nash equilibrium. Think about it. All current faiths (and for that matter, ideologies) have spread much faster than people spread. MUCH faster. So they all proselytized. It is sometimes a little bit irritating to hear people make the wildest claims about quite a few religions. Often about Buddhism people make the most outlandish claims, which presumably includes "non-proselytizing" in your comment. Now please don't think I'm singling out Buddhism here, it's just an example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionary#Buddhist_missions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionary#Buddhist_missions
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  You are mistaken. Judaism, at least, does not proselytize. Some branches actively discourage converts, and a few refuse to acknowledge that conversion is even possible for the Gentile-born.
  - ryacko 8y ago
    The branch of Judaism that proselytzed and admitted Gentile converts became Christianity.
    - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
      And the rest did not. The point stands.

oh_sigh 8y ago

He was an adventurer. He would go to remote and weird places all the time, usually without any kind of primordial tribespeople to convert. Odds are he was just on another adventure, rather than him feeling that these people really needed jesus.

swatkat 8y ago
The 27-year-old American, identified as John Allen Chau, came to India on a tourist visa but came to the Andaman and Nicobar islands in October with the express purpose of proselytizing, Dependra Pathak, Director General of Police of the Andaman and Nicobar islands, told CNN. "We refuse to call him a tourist. Yes, he came on a tourist visa but he came with a specific purpose to preach on a prohibited island," Pathak said. Chau did not inform the police of his intentions to travel to the island to attempt to convert its inhabitants. https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/21/asia/andaman-nicobar-us-missionary-killed-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/21/asia/andaman-nicobar-us-missi...
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  Yes, I'm aware of the statements of the Indian authorities. I'm curious if they know this or if they are assuming based on some statements he made - like about how god gave him the power to travel to remote and dangerous places, or because he had a bible on him(which many Christians carry). Did Chau learn any Sentinelese? How was he planning on doing the proselytizing? Also, not to nitpick, but the article does have other errors. For example, it says "Just more than a dozen people" live on the island, whereas all sources I can find say between 50 and 400 people live there.

module0000 8y ago

>> Also, can these evangelists take a break? It's not 1600s anymore. One of the Christian figurehead's final commands is paraphrased as "Go and preach the good news to everyone in the world". I speculate that's what these people are doing.

iBelieve 8y ago

If you were convinced that something is true and that it has eternal consequences for those who reject or don't hear that message, how could you _not_ want to tell everyone about it, going to the ends of the earth and risking life itself so others could hear that message?

thunfischbrot 8y ago
Although if you believe in an omnipotent god, would you believe that she/he would not give those a chance who did not here of her/him? Why the need to actively push it onto those who are currently unaware?
- sbarre 8y ago
  That my friend is a level of self-reflection and self-awareness that is not as common as you'd imagine.
  - incompletude 8y ago
    Our fellow human comrades in the country next door have a very similar belief system that contains the same defense mechanisms. Spread the word and fight the enemies of their deity. This is self-reflection: everyone believes what fits better to one, don't push your shit over others or risky getting killed with bows and arrows, and every now and then bombs. Religions are very creative ancient defense mechanisms. It exists for you to have bonds to your group, for you to survive, and protecting the belief system is to protect your own. But this is not 1600 anymore, time to grow up. Take the good stuff and throw the toxic shit behind or put it all behind.
- iBelieve 8y ago
  If you're a theist who believes in a "god", sure, you can believe whatever you want, including that god won't punish anyone. But for Christians, we are convinced that the Bible is true based on evidence and reason, and therefore can only believe what it teaches. For Christians, the answer is simple: everyone has sinned, God is just, and must punish sin. Lack of knowledge of God is no excuse, for everyone knows that God exists and everyone has rejected Him. No one deserves to go heaven; no one can get to heaven by anything they do. The only way to heaven is through Jesus, by trusting in Him as our only hope of forgiveness and salvation. That is why we must go to the ends of the earth, from the largest cities to the most remote islands, to share Christianity with everyone we meet, often giving our lives to spread that message.

subjectsigma 8y ago

>Also, can these evangelists take a break? It's not 1600s anymore. I don't know, the Saudis just started letting women drive earlier this year. People do lots of weird things for religion - some of them you might not agree with, and some of them might be straight up dumb. The year doesn't matter.

scruple 8y ago

Well, it's made much more clear what his intentions most likely actually were in the BBC [0] article: > "People thought he is a missionary because he had mentioned his position on God and that he was a believer on social media or somewhere online. But in a strict sense, he was not a missionary. > "He was an adventurer. His intention was to meet the aborigines." [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46293221 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46293221