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How do you anonymously host a service from your home computer? I'm new to all this. I also checked out your site. I hope to be at your level of expertise one d

How do you anonymously host a service from your home computer? I'm new to all this. I also checked out your site. I hope to be at your level of expertise one day.

sdwisely 8y ago
"Tor Hidden Services" are services hosted on the tor network and inaccessible outside it. Hosts are assigned a dns name <id>.onion so clients can connect to that service.
- bambataa 8y ago
  Is it not fairly trivial to link that to you? How can you make it anonymous?
  - Filligree 8y ago
    Only if you're omniscient in the network. No single node knows what traffic it's carrying, or that the next node the traffic is meant to be sent to is the final one.
  - sp332 8y ago
    In normal Tor usage, the client sends a request through three chosen hops, each of which only knows the previous and next hops, so the entry node doesn't know the destination and the exit node doesn't know where the request originated. But this only hides the client, because the client needs to know the server's address to direct the exit node where to send the request. So to hide the server, there is a symmetrical setup with three extra hops on the server's side, and a published "rendezvous" address in the middle. So the server connects to the rendezvous without revealing its real IP, and the client can direct requests to the rendezvous without knowing the server's IP.
    - arthurjj 8y ago
      ^ is the most informative comment in the whole thread. So by 'hosting' they mean being the rendezvous address?
      - sp332 8y ago
        If I'm reading this right, it actually hosted the websites but its IP address was hidden. I don't know if each site maybe got its own IP on the host, because after all I'd think it would be trivial for a customer to upload some code to unmask the host's actual IP. https://web.archive.org/web/20170830191551/https://hosting.danwin1210.me/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170830191551/https://hosting.d...
        mirimir 8y ago
        If the .onion host is competent, they use iptables to restrict output to the Tor process.
      - mirimir 8y ago
        No, by "hosting" they mean shared hosting, with multiple .onion sites on one physical server. Each of those .onion sites would have its own Tor entry guard relays, and would negotiate its own rendezvous points. An .onion service, just like a Tor user, selects a few entry guards that it uses consistently. And gradually replaces with new ones, over some weeks. But rendezvous points get picked fresh for each client-server connection.
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  "Web services" are hosted on the internet and inaccessible outside it. "Chat lines" are hosted on telephone networks and inaccessible outside it.
- mirimir 8y ago
  OK, I'm being picky, I know. But the .onion hostname has no relation to DNS. It's just the hash of the site's private key, truncated to 16 characters.
  - sdwisely 8y ago
    Absolutely fine to be! I actually gave it a quick thought that I was curious how the hostnames were assigned but posted right before bed.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      Hey :) Many would love having DNS for .onion addresses. And there's been much talk of a .onion domain.
  - kodablah 8y ago
    To be more picky, it's the SHA-1 hash of the public key, truncated to 10 bytes, then base 32'd which makes 16 chars. That's only for v2, v3 is a bit different.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      Damn, thanks :) I'd forgotten that :( And yes, v3 is a huge space. That is, several orders of magnitude larger than the IPv6 space. Which is itself humongous. Edit: Oops. Got that very wrong. Onion v3 is orders of magnitude greater than IPv6 /64. But orders of magnitude less than IPv6 overall. It's like this, I think. onion v2: ~1.84×10^19 [16^16] IPv6 /64: ~1.84×10^19 (which is why OnionCat works) onion v3: ~9.35×10^27 [56^16] all IPv6: ~3.40×10^38
      - kodablah 8y ago
        For anyone curious, v3 is the 32-byte ed25519 pub key, then the first two bytes of the SHA3-256 hash of the key (w/ prepended fixed string and one byte appended), then one more const byte, and then all of those 35 bytes are base 32'd to make 56 chars. Some Go code to illustrate: https://github.com/cretz/bine/blob/f33268f0843a1b2b131a4cacf285a7d0a3e138ba/torutil/key.go#L57 https://github.com/cretz/bine/blob/f33268f0843a1b2b131a4cacf.... One benefit being that the entire pub key is right there in the hostname.
kodablah 8y ago
Onion (née hidden) services are easily hosted from any computer, even behind a NAT/ISP due to how it publishes its descriptor and relies on reachable relays for rendezvous. It's easy with the Tor executable and a torrc file, there are plenty of guides out there. Even though you're new to all this, for others wanting to do this programmatically, there is Stem for Python and I've written one for Go [0]. It's such an easy self-hosting NAT traversal technique, I'm surprised it's not used more often in situations not requiring great bandwidth/latency (e.g. p2p chat). 0 - https://github.com/cretz/bine https://github.com/cretz/bine
- dredmorbius 8y ago
  Inexpertly hosting onion services on your own premises, particularly if you're doing so out of a real fear of getting found out, is not recommended. Talk to the Dread Pirate Roberts next time he's in the neighbourhood.
mirimir 8y ago
OnionShare is a good choice.[0] However, Tor is vulnerable to traffic analysis. And running a server, adversaries can easily modulate/fingerprint the traffic, which facilitates traffic analysis. If you can see the signal, and have taps on major AS, you can drill down to the server. 0) https://onionshare.org/ https://onionshare.org/
- bouncycastle 8y ago
  A way I would pinpoint a hidden server would be to monitor different data center regions / networks for outages or congestion, while at the same time looking at the hidden server's ping reply. The response times alone can reveal a lot of information. Once I have the data center, I'm sure the data center admins can see which servers are using Tor, and help with pinpointing it further. No need for taps.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    Yeah, that too :( One can route Tor traffic for .onion servers through VPNs, or even through nested VPN chains. That makes it a little harder, because the hosting provider can't easily tell that it's Tor traffic. Also, one can run a private obfsproxy, which isn't listed or indexed by Tor.

How do you anonymously host a service from your home computer? I'm new to all this. I also checked out your site. I hope to be at your level of expertise one day.

sdwisely 8y ago

"Tor Hidden Services" are services hosted on the tor network and inaccessible outside it. Hosts are assigned a dns name <id>.onion so clients can connect to that service.

bambataa 8y ago
Is it not fairly trivial to link that to you? How can you make it anonymous?
- Filligree 8y ago
  Only if you're omniscient in the network. No single node knows what traffic it's carrying, or that the next node the traffic is meant to be sent to is the final one.
- sp332 8y ago
  In normal Tor usage, the client sends a request through three chosen hops, each of which only knows the previous and next hops, so the entry node doesn't know the destination and the exit node doesn't know where the request originated. But this only hides the client, because the client needs to know the server's address to direct the exit node where to send the request. So to hide the server, there is a symmetrical setup with three extra hops on the server's side, and a published "rendezvous" address in the middle. So the server connects to the rendezvous without revealing its real IP, and the client can direct requests to the rendezvous without knowing the server's IP.
  - arthurjj 8y ago
    ^ is the most informative comment in the whole thread. So by 'hosting' they mean being the rendezvous address?
    - sp332 8y ago
      If I'm reading this right, it actually hosted the websites but its IP address was hidden. I don't know if each site maybe got its own IP on the host, because after all I'd think it would be trivial for a customer to upload some code to unmask the host's actual IP. https://web.archive.org/web/20170830191551/https://hosting.danwin1210.me/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170830191551/https://hosting.d...
      - mirimir 8y ago
        If the .onion host is competent, they use iptables to restrict output to the Tor process.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      No, by "hosting" they mean shared hosting, with multiple .onion sites on one physical server. Each of those .onion sites would have its own Tor entry guard relays, and would negotiate its own rendezvous points. An .onion service, just like a Tor user, selects a few entry guards that it uses consistently. And gradually replaces with new ones, over some weeks. But rendezvous points get picked fresh for each client-server connection.
pavel_lishin 8y ago
"Web services" are hosted on the internet and inaccessible outside it. "Chat lines" are hosted on telephone networks and inaccessible outside it.
mirimir 8y ago
OK, I'm being picky, I know. But the .onion hostname has no relation to DNS. It's just the hash of the site's private key, truncated to 16 characters.
- sdwisely 8y ago
  Absolutely fine to be! I actually gave it a quick thought that I was curious how the hostnames were assigned but posted right before bed.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    Hey :) Many would love having DNS for .onion addresses. And there's been much talk of a .onion domain.
- kodablah 8y ago
  To be more picky, it's the SHA-1 hash of the public key, truncated to 10 bytes, then base 32'd which makes 16 chars. That's only for v2, v3 is a bit different.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    Damn, thanks :) I'd forgotten that :( And yes, v3 is a huge space. That is, several orders of magnitude larger than the IPv6 space. Which is itself humongous. Edit: Oops. Got that very wrong. Onion v3 is orders of magnitude greater than IPv6 /64. But orders of magnitude less than IPv6 overall. It's like this, I think. onion v2: ~1.84×10^19 [16^16] IPv6 /64: ~1.84×10^19 (which is why OnionCat works) onion v3: ~9.35×10^27 [56^16] all IPv6: ~3.40×10^38
    - kodablah 8y ago
      For anyone curious, v3 is the 32-byte ed25519 pub key, then the first two bytes of the SHA3-256 hash of the key (w/ prepended fixed string and one byte appended), then one more const byte, and then all of those 35 bytes are base 32'd to make 56 chars. Some Go code to illustrate: https://github.com/cretz/bine/blob/f33268f0843a1b2b131a4cacf285a7d0a3e138ba/torutil/key.go#L57 https://github.com/cretz/bine/blob/f33268f0843a1b2b131a4cacf.... One benefit being that the entire pub key is right there in the hostname.

kodablah 8y ago

Onion (née hidden) services are easily hosted from any computer, even behind a NAT/ISP due to how it publishes its descriptor and relies on reachable relays for rendezvous. It's easy with the Tor executable and a torrc file, there are plenty of guides out there. Even though you're new to all this, for others wanting to do this programmatically, there is Stem for Python and I've written one for Go [0]. It's such an easy self-hosting NAT traversal technique, I'm surprised it's not used more often in situations not requiring great bandwidth/latency (e.g. p2p chat). 0 - https://github.com/cretz/bine https://github.com/cretz/bine

dredmorbius 8y ago
Inexpertly hosting onion services on your own premises, particularly if you're doing so out of a real fear of getting found out, is not recommended. Talk to the Dread Pirate Roberts next time he's in the neighbourhood.

mirimir 8y ago

OnionShare is a good choice.[0] However, Tor is vulnerable to traffic analysis. And running a server, adversaries can easily modulate/fingerprint the traffic, which facilitates traffic analysis. If you can see the signal, and have taps on major AS, you can drill down to the server. 0) https://onionshare.org/ https://onionshare.org/

bouncycastle 8y ago
A way I would pinpoint a hidden server would be to monitor different data center regions / networks for outages or congestion, while at the same time looking at the hidden server's ping reply. The response times alone can reveal a lot of information. Once I have the data center, I'm sure the data center admins can see which servers are using Tor, and help with pinpointing it further. No need for taps.
- mirimir 8y ago
  Yeah, that too :( One can route Tor traffic for .onion servers through VPNs, or even through nested VPN chains. That makes it a little harder, because the hosting provider can't easily tell that it's Tor traffic. Also, one can run a private obfsproxy, which isn't listed or indexed by Tor.