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please back up such a bold declaration with some rationale. any tool can be taken too far and become abusive, but you've made no attempt to make that connection

please back up such a bold declaration with some rationale. any tool can be taken too far and become abusive, but you've made no attempt to make that connection. humans are competitive (and also cooperative). we like to know how we are doing, and gamification facilitates that while also relieving boredom from an otherwise tedious task (something i do often just for myself).

rchaud 8y ago
> humans are competitive (and also cooperative). we like to know how we are doing, and gamification facilitates that That was already known via driver ratings. No one considered that "gamification" because it's a basic KPI. The "lab rat" aspect of this comes into play with some computer-generated BS "challenge" like "“Complete 34 rides between the hours of 5am on Monday and 5am on Sunday to receive a $63 bonus.” In videogames, this is called "grinding", aka gaining experience points doing tedious, repetitive tasks, in order to proceed to the next experience level. The difference is, video game players aren't doing something that requires the same level of attention and duty of care as a car driver.
- clairity 8y ago
  see, that's why i asked for details. your last point about safety is an interesting wrinkle to consider. but i view your example (a $63 bonus for 34 rides) to be more an incentive than a gamification because it involves real money, not simply "meaningless" points. ratings are more akin to gamification in my view because (1) they're not directly tied to an incentive, and (2) it takes advantage of our human nature of wanting to do well, especially when it involves how other people view us.
ppeetteerr 8y ago
Would you be against your employer rewarding you with an IV injection of dopamine? I know this is a bit of a stretch but bare with me. Rewarding someone with gamification, either audibly or visually, or thought other gamification systems releases dopamine in the system. The medium of communication is different but the effect it the same: is a synthetic boost of dopamine and it's similar to injecting it directly into the body, albeit to a lesser degree.
- clairity 8y ago
  you seem to want to make a distinction between the dopamine hit you get from driving for uber/lyft and from the pat on the back or the kind word your boss gives you every now and then. but our whole lives are contained in the vast quantities of neurotransmitters thrown around by our brain by such actions, and it's difficult to single out one manipulative instance from another. what i would suggest is better is to bridge the information asymmetry between contractor and contractee in ways that meaningfully allow people to make considered decisions about work. so instead of trying to protect the worker from a dopamine hit (you can't), demonstrate to them how gamification really works (from both sides). in addition, let's create a real liquid labor market so that the worker can legitimately evaluate and choose a different job if this one sucks. then, if they choose to drive for uber/lyft, it's a considered and affirmative decision made on a level playing field. yes, this is really hard, but we can do it.

rchaud 8y ago

> humans are competitive (and also cooperative). we like to know how we are doing, and gamification facilitates that That was already known via driver ratings. No one considered that "gamification" because it's a basic KPI. The "lab rat" aspect of this comes into play with some computer-generated BS "challenge" like "“Complete 34 rides between the hours of 5am on Monday and 5am on Sunday to receive a $63 bonus.” In videogames, this is called "grinding", aka gaining experience points doing tedious, repetitive tasks, in order to proceed to the next experience level. The difference is, video game players aren't doing something that requires the same level of attention and duty of care as a car driver.

clairity 8y ago
see, that's why i asked for details. your last point about safety is an interesting wrinkle to consider. but i view your example (a $63 bonus for 34 rides) to be more an incentive than a gamification because it involves real money, not simply "meaningless" points. ratings are more akin to gamification in my view because (1) they're not directly tied to an incentive, and (2) it takes advantage of our human nature of wanting to do well, especially when it involves how other people view us.

ppeetteerr 8y ago

Would you be against your employer rewarding you with an IV injection of dopamine? I know this is a bit of a stretch but bare with me. Rewarding someone with gamification, either audibly or visually, or thought other gamification systems releases dopamine in the system. The medium of communication is different but the effect it the same: is a synthetic boost of dopamine and it's similar to injecting it directly into the body, albeit to a lesser degree.

clairity 8y ago
you seem to want to make a distinction between the dopamine hit you get from driving for uber/lyft and from the pat on the back or the kind word your boss gives you every now and then. but our whole lives are contained in the vast quantities of neurotransmitters thrown around by our brain by such actions, and it's difficult to single out one manipulative instance from another. what i would suggest is better is to bridge the information asymmetry between contractor and contractee in ways that meaningfully allow people to make considered decisions about work. so instead of trying to protect the worker from a dopamine hit (you can't), demonstrate to them how gamification really works (from both sides). in addition, let's create a real liquid labor market so that the worker can legitimately evaluate and choose a different job if this one sucks. then, if they choose to drive for uber/lyft, it's a considered and affirmative decision made on a level playing field. yes, this is really hard, but we can do it.