8 ms·

Beijing to Judge Every Resident Based on Behavior by End of 2020

38 points by pdog 8y ago

fredley 8y ago
Another day, another Black Mirror episode becomes eerily closer to our present reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive_(Black_Mirror) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive_(Black_Mirror)
- quietbritishjim 8y ago
  Did you mean to look to another episode? That one is about being judged by other individuals, resulting in low (or high) ratings due to petty superficial interactions. The article is about being judged by the government, leading to low ratings based on political dissent (or for fare-dodgers, if you believe that).
  - dsamarin 8y ago
    I thought of the same episode. Either way it seems very dystopian no matter who is providing the ratings to influence citizen's prospects.
- pseudolus 8y ago
  There was also an episode ("Majority Rules") of "The Orville" with a similar theme. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/orville/s01/e07 https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/orville/s01/e07
sys_64738 8y ago
Western money and technology enables the Communists to suppress the population of China. Until the Communists are overthrown then the Chinese people will always be prisoners.
- doanguyen 8y ago
  Seems Western people always apply their principles to Asia, HN is not an exception.
  - d0100 8y ago
    Pretty hard to come up with your own principles when you're either dying of hunger or by tanks... Gross generalization, but the point still stands.
    - doanguyen 8y ago
      Sound familiar, was this the story that happened in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria?
rusher81572 8y ago
Alex Jones/Infowars has been warning about this for a long time. https://www.infowars.com/infowars-was-right-facebook-using-chicom-social-score-for-users/ https://www.infowars.com/infowars-was-right-facebook-using-c... https://www.infowars.com/journalist-unpersoned-by-chicom-social-score-no-travel-no-property/ https://www.infowars.com/journalist-unpersoned-by-chicom-soc... https://www.infowars.com/democrat-2020-candidate-wants-govt-sponsored-social-credit-system-comparable-to-chinas/ https://www.infowars.com/democrat-2020-candidate-wants-govt-...
ryanwaggoner 8y ago
This is the actual privacy concern that I worry about. It's not some company using machine learning on my emails to show me ads, or tracking my face when I enter their stores so they can mail me better coupons, or figuring out that I use my voice assistant in the afternoons to get wine delivered. I can opt out of those. Not always easy, or convenient, or comfortable, but I'm unaware of hardly any commercial relationships that I'm forced to engage in. Most of the complaints I see about corporations taking over our lives are either people complaining about a government-granted monopoly (Comcast) or complaining because they want the benefits of that relationship without any cost (Google). For me, it's the government and the people who love it for "all the good it can do in the world" deciding that a great use for all those police and military and taxes and guns and bureaucracy is to dig as far into my life as they possibly can (which is a long, long way) to ensure that I'm doing the "right" things, and to make my life a living nightmare if I disagree. Because then what do I do? Flee the country? What if that government decides "nah, we don't want people to leave"? Things like this and cops shooting unarmed people and the military droning middle eastern countries and private prisons and civil forfeiture is why I lean libertarian. Yes, I know that's a dirty word. My social capital score just dropped a bit!
- contingencies 8y ago
  Beware of silent drones with ion drives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boB6qu5dcCw&feature=youtu.be&t=132 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boB6qu5dcCw&feature=youtu.be...
- nickthemagicman 8y ago
  I'm worried libertarians are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. A democratic government is great, but just like corporations, it needs to be held accountable. That's why I donate to the ACLU. It helps keep government accountable for their abuses of power. Also, paying for news sources keeps journalists shining a light on corruption. Also education. An educated populace is a populace that's hard to control. These are some of the things authoritarian governments (that you're afraid of),go after first as they try to seize power. Pol pot did it, Stalin did it, North Korea does it. These are also unironically some of the things that conservatives/liberatarians seem to dislike.
jellicle 8y ago
Cool, hopefully they can get some tips from the US, which has been doing this for a long time via credit agencies and secret FBI, Homeland Security, and NSA databases. > unable to move even a single step Hey, it's a no-fly list. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-tsa-airport-security-muslim-profiling-0816-20180815-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-pe... Let's consult Wikipedia: > The No Fly List is different from the Terrorist Watch List, a much longer list of people said to be suspected of some involvement with terrorism. As of June 2016, the Terrorist Watch List is estimated to contain over 2,484,442 records, consisting of 1,877,133 individual identities. That doesn't sound good. > Otherwise, the software would calculate a "risk score" and then print a code on the boarding pass indicating the appropriate "screening level" Well, at least when the US calculates "risk scores" for its citizens based on secret information and then denies them travel based on that, it's guaranteed to be good and noble, unlike when those darn Commies do it.
- dsamarin 8y ago
  I can't tell where you draw the line. Would you share your alternative to credit scoring information for private money lenders? And government watch lists?
- Fjolsvith 8y ago
  If flying were the only mode of transportation, then, yeah, it'd be like the way them Commies do it.
- Fjolsvith 8y ago
  LOL. Your comment comes just a day before this article on China putting up their no-fly list: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18513221 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18513221
zachguo 8y ago
Kinda over-interpreted, it's essentially a state-run TransUnion credit score plus background check. It's primarily targeting at people who borrow a lot money then escape to other cities or abroad to avoid paying the debt. The political suppression part that media is obsessed with is still largely determined by the existing legal system which considers certain anti-CCP behaviors as crime.
- jhanschoo 8y ago
  There are important differences between this and a TransUnion credit score. * The government may not discriminate based on a person's TransUnion score, except for limited circumstances where it is directly relevant. * The government may not discriminate businesses based on whether they serve people with poor TransUnion scores. Until the Western media is sufficiently assured that this cannot happen, they are (IMO quite rightly) suspicious about the potential of abuse of the infrastructure built to support this by the state. Unfortunately, the exact reasoning why tends to be forgotten, and the suspicion comes across as vague fear, uncertainty, doubt.
wolfpwner 8y ago
Welcome to the future
fatjokes 8y ago
I mean, how else are you going to get people to stop spitting and cutting in lines en masse.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
hulton 8y ago
How much you want to bet people won't revolt?
zygotic12 8y ago
I'm in a quandary. Is it better to have the government judging or businesses? Fuckbook, Goggle and Microslurp collect more data about you and in ways that any bureaucracy could not emulate.... Does it matter who watches us? Do we want someone watching?

38 points by pdog 8y ago

Another day, another Black Mirror episode becomes eerily closer to our present reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive_(Black_Mirror) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive_(Black_Mirror)

quietbritishjim 8y ago
Did you mean to look to another episode? That one is about being judged by other individuals, resulting in low (or high) ratings due to petty superficial interactions. The article is about being judged by the government, leading to low ratings based on political dissent (or for fare-dodgers, if you believe that).
- dsamarin 8y ago
  I thought of the same episode. Either way it seems very dystopian no matter who is providing the ratings to influence citizen's prospects.
pseudolus 8y ago
There was also an episode ("Majority Rules") of "The Orville" with a similar theme. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/orville/s01/e07 https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/orville/s01/e07

sys_64738 8y ago

Western money and technology enables the Communists to suppress the population of China. Until the Communists are overthrown then the Chinese people will always be prisoners.

doanguyen 8y ago
Seems Western people always apply their principles to Asia, HN is not an exception.
- d0100 8y ago
  Pretty hard to come up with your own principles when you're either dying of hunger or by tanks... Gross generalization, but the point still stands.
  - doanguyen 8y ago
    Sound familiar, was this the story that happened in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria?

rusher81572 8y ago

Alex Jones/Infowars has been warning about this for a long time. https://www.infowars.com/infowars-was-right-facebook-using-chicom-social-score-for-users/ https://www.infowars.com/infowars-was-right-facebook-using-c... https://www.infowars.com/journalist-unpersoned-by-chicom-social-score-no-travel-no-property/ https://www.infowars.com/journalist-unpersoned-by-chicom-soc... https://www.infowars.com/democrat-2020-candidate-wants-govt-sponsored-social-credit-system-comparable-to-chinas/ https://www.infowars.com/democrat-2020-candidate-wants-govt-...

ryanwaggoner 8y ago

This is the actual privacy concern that I worry about. It's not some company using machine learning on my emails to show me ads, or tracking my face when I enter their stores so they can mail me better coupons, or figuring out that I use my voice assistant in the afternoons to get wine delivered. I can opt out of those. Not always easy, or convenient, or comfortable, but I'm unaware of hardly any commercial relationships that I'm forced to engage in. Most of the complaints I see about corporations taking over our lives are either people complaining about a government-granted monopoly (Comcast) or complaining because they want the benefits of that relationship without any cost (Google). For me, it's the government and the people who love it for "all the good it can do in the world" deciding that a great use for all those police and military and taxes and guns and bureaucracy is to dig as far into my life as they possibly can (which is a long, long way) to ensure that I'm doing the "right" things, and to make my life a living nightmare if I disagree. Because then what do I do? Flee the country? What if that government decides "nah, we don't want people to leave"? Things like this and cops shooting unarmed people and the military droning middle eastern countries and private prisons and civil forfeiture is why I lean libertarian. Yes, I know that's a dirty word. My social capital score just dropped a bit!

contingencies 8y ago
Beware of silent drones with ion drives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boB6qu5dcCw&feature=youtu.be&t=132 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boB6qu5dcCw&feature=youtu.be...
nickthemagicman 8y ago
I'm worried libertarians are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. A democratic government is great, but just like corporations, it needs to be held accountable. That's why I donate to the ACLU. It helps keep government accountable for their abuses of power. Also, paying for news sources keeps journalists shining a light on corruption. Also education. An educated populace is a populace that's hard to control. These are some of the things authoritarian governments (that you're afraid of),go after first as they try to seize power. Pol pot did it, Stalin did it, North Korea does it. These are also unironically some of the things that conservatives/liberatarians seem to dislike.

jellicle 8y ago

Cool, hopefully they can get some tips from the US, which has been doing this for a long time via credit agencies and secret FBI, Homeland Security, and NSA databases. > unable to move even a single step Hey, it's a no-fly list. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-tsa-airport-security-muslim-profiling-0816-20180815-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-pe... Let's consult Wikipedia: > The No Fly List is different from the Terrorist Watch List, a much longer list of people said to be suspected of some involvement with terrorism. As of June 2016, the Terrorist Watch List is estimated to contain over 2,484,442 records, consisting of 1,877,133 individual identities. That doesn't sound good. > Otherwise, the software would calculate a "risk score" and then print a code on the boarding pass indicating the appropriate "screening level" Well, at least when the US calculates "risk scores" for its citizens based on secret information and then denies them travel based on that, it's guaranteed to be good and noble, unlike when those darn Commies do it.

dsamarin 8y ago
I can't tell where you draw the line. Would you share your alternative to credit scoring information for private money lenders? And government watch lists?
Fjolsvith 8y ago
If flying were the only mode of transportation, then, yeah, it'd be like the way them Commies do it.
Fjolsvith 8y ago
LOL. Your comment comes just a day before this article on China putting up their no-fly list: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18513221 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18513221

zachguo 8y ago

Kinda over-interpreted, it's essentially a state-run TransUnion credit score plus background check. It's primarily targeting at people who borrow a lot money then escape to other cities or abroad to avoid paying the debt. The political suppression part that media is obsessed with is still largely determined by the existing legal system which considers certain anti-CCP behaviors as crime.

jhanschoo 8y ago
There are important differences between this and a TransUnion credit score. * The government may not discriminate based on a person's TransUnion score, except for limited circumstances where it is directly relevant. * The government may not discriminate businesses based on whether they serve people with poor TransUnion scores. Until the Western media is sufficiently assured that this cannot happen, they are (IMO quite rightly) suspicious about the potential of abuse of the infrastructure built to support this by the state. Unfortunately, the exact reasoning why tends to be forgotten, and the suspicion comes across as vague fear, uncertainty, doubt.

wolfpwner 8y ago

Welcome to the future

fatjokes 8y ago

I mean, how else are you going to get people to stop spitting and cutting in lines en masse.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

hulton 8y ago

How much you want to bet people won't revolt?

zygotic12 8y ago

I'm in a quandary. Is it better to have the government judging or businesses? Fuckbook, Goggle and Microslurp collect more data about you and in ways that any bureaucracy could not emulate.... Does it matter who watches us? Do we want someone watching?