5 ms·

I remember when I used to cringe that an application was built with Tcl/Tk because it would be very slow and need quite a bit more memory than a similar applica

I remember when I used to cringe that an application was built with Tcl/Tk because it would be very slow and need quite a bit more memory than a similar application written in C or C++. But, today, I suspect this editor is an order of magnitude faster and an order of magnitude smaller than Atom or VSCode (this is purely speculation, of course...but, I feel like it's a reasonable hunch, based on my experience with Tcl/Tk in the past).

hansen 8y ago
And all those Emacs jokes don't work anymore
- oblio 8y ago
  I don't use Emacs, but those Emacs jokes kind of stopped when having 64MB of memory became common. So circa 2000 :)
  - bhaak 8y ago
    Yeah, my current Emacs session is using 2 GB of RAM and that is considered low memory usage these days.
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    - dwringer 8y ago
      I don't think that kind of memory usage is necessarily common - I get sessions that grow for whatever reason but typically I can have several emacs instances running at once using less than 100MB each - the ones I treat like notepads are often less than 10MB.
      - tyingq 8y ago
        "the ones I treat like notepads are often less than 10MB" Interesting. That's not much off the old "eight megs and constantly swapping" joke.
      - nine_k 8y ago
        Hmm, why would one run several emacs instances? Emacs supports the client-server model, which I find very convenient and fast. Basically having `EDITOR="emacsclient -n"` allows you to use the one emacs everywhere.
        dwringer 8y ago
        I run them with different color themes and fonts (randomly chosen from a list on startup) so I can instantly see which window is being used for which project (I juggle several at work - I also take advantage of Windows 10's virtual desktops so get them spread out all over the place). If one of them goes haywire I don't feel bad about killing it since the others remain unaffected, so I never really considered using just a single server instance. Since I don't run out of memory and have CPU cycles to spare most of the time, it works well enough for my current needs. I also tend to run the windows with partial transparency so I can see bits and pieces of other sessions/browsers/etc behind them - something I was slightly hesitant to start doing but that has made using the computer feel much more "lightweight" (for lack of a better term). I've found it surprisingly useful to have emacs show a second buffer slightly faded directly through the first one.
        jolmg 8y ago
        I too, for a time, had setup my system so that windows were partially transparent. It looked cool, and helped to find windows when they were hidden behind other ones. Then, one day, I turned the partial transparency off, and found it to be very relaxing on my sight and brain. I didn't feel any strain when I started, but I guess it accumulated. For context, I use a tiling window manager with an average of 4 to 7 windows per workspace-monitor combo. Back then, I also set up a moving background (a screensaver always on in the root window). In fact, I think that was the primary motivator. I had gone years without a wallpaper because having a tiling window manager made it meaningless and I was missing having some eye candy. Having partial transparency would let me see the moving background through the windows. Anyway, I digress and I'm back to no transparency, no background, in any case.
mhd 8y ago
Not like C/C++ applications go easy on memory these days, either. When GUI libraries include CSS and JavaScript interpreters, suddenly MFC and Motif look less bloaty… Never mind Java editors/IDE, which are pretty much standard these days.
- Longhanks 8y ago
  The only "standard" full-fledged IDEs I can think of that are Java are IntelliJ and Eclipse. Visual Studio (WPF), Xcode (Cocoa), Qt Creator (Qt), KDevelop (KDE Frameworks/Qt), GTK Builder (GTK) are all built with their platform's native toolkit. Concerning text editors, I think that field is split between Electron-based, Sublime and terminal-based editors. I can't picture users writing in Java editors in 2018.
  - thrower123 8y ago
    > Concerning text editors, I think that field is split between Electron-based, Sublime and terminal-based editors There is still the whole family of Scintilla-based editors out there. I use Notepad++ and Geany all the time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scintilla_(software) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scintilla_(software)
  - mhd 8y ago
    Let me clarify that, with "standard" I didn't mean exclusive, just that running a Java IDE ain't exactly exotic or weird. IntelliJ and its variants alone are a good share of the market.
  - adl 8y ago
    Pycharm, Webstorm, Goland and Intellij, are some of the most used IDEs, all Java based.
    - laumars 8y ago
      That's a little disingenuous because they're all JetBrains IDEs and thus are just variations of IntelliJ
    - 8y ago
cjallen88 8y ago
Yeah these days TCL is JITed too, which will certainly help
- f0r 8y ago
  It isn't JITed, I think you are thinking of byte code compilation.
  - snaky 8y ago
    It's compiled in byte code, yes, but on-demand, so it's JIT.

hansen 8y ago

And all those Emacs jokes don't work anymore

oblio 8y ago
I don't use Emacs, but those Emacs jokes kind of stopped when having 64MB of memory became common. So circa 2000 :)
- bhaak 8y ago
  Yeah, my current Emacs session is using 2 GB of RAM and that is considered low memory usage these days.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - dwringer 8y ago
    I don't think that kind of memory usage is necessarily common - I get sessions that grow for whatever reason but typically I can have several emacs instances running at once using less than 100MB each - the ones I treat like notepads are often less than 10MB.
    - tyingq 8y ago
      "the ones I treat like notepads are often less than 10MB" Interesting. That's not much off the old "eight megs and constantly swapping" joke.
    - nine_k 8y ago
      Hmm, why would one run several emacs instances? Emacs supports the client-server model, which I find very convenient and fast. Basically having `EDITOR="emacsclient -n"` allows you to use the one emacs everywhere.
      - dwringer 8y ago
        I run them with different color themes and fonts (randomly chosen from a list on startup) so I can instantly see which window is being used for which project (I juggle several at work - I also take advantage of Windows 10's virtual desktops so get them spread out all over the place). If one of them goes haywire I don't feel bad about killing it since the others remain unaffected, so I never really considered using just a single server instance. Since I don't run out of memory and have CPU cycles to spare most of the time, it works well enough for my current needs. I also tend to run the windows with partial transparency so I can see bits and pieces of other sessions/browsers/etc behind them - something I was slightly hesitant to start doing but that has made using the computer feel much more "lightweight" (for lack of a better term). I've found it surprisingly useful to have emacs show a second buffer slightly faded directly through the first one.
        jolmg 8y ago
        I too, for a time, had setup my system so that windows were partially transparent. It looked cool, and helped to find windows when they were hidden behind other ones. Then, one day, I turned the partial transparency off, and found it to be very relaxing on my sight and brain. I didn't feel any strain when I started, but I guess it accumulated. For context, I use a tiling window manager with an average of 4 to 7 windows per workspace-monitor combo. Back then, I also set up a moving background (a screensaver always on in the root window). In fact, I think that was the primary motivator. I had gone years without a wallpaper because having a tiling window manager made it meaningless and I was missing having some eye candy. Having partial transparency would let me see the moving background through the windows. Anyway, I digress and I'm back to no transparency, no background, in any case.

mhd 8y ago

Not like C/C++ applications go easy on memory these days, either. When GUI libraries include CSS and JavaScript interpreters, suddenly MFC and Motif look less bloaty… Never mind Java editors/IDE, which are pretty much standard these days.

Longhanks 8y ago
The only "standard" full-fledged IDEs I can think of that are Java are IntelliJ and Eclipse. Visual Studio (WPF), Xcode (Cocoa), Qt Creator (Qt), KDevelop (KDE Frameworks/Qt), GTK Builder (GTK) are all built with their platform's native toolkit. Concerning text editors, I think that field is split between Electron-based, Sublime and terminal-based editors. I can't picture users writing in Java editors in 2018.
- thrower123 8y ago
  > Concerning text editors, I think that field is split between Electron-based, Sublime and terminal-based editors There is still the whole family of Scintilla-based editors out there. I use Notepad++ and Geany all the time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scintilla_(software) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scintilla_(software)
- mhd 8y ago
  Let me clarify that, with "standard" I didn't mean exclusive, just that running a Java IDE ain't exactly exotic or weird. IntelliJ and its variants alone are a good share of the market.
- adl 8y ago
  Pycharm, Webstorm, Goland and Intellij, are some of the most used IDEs, all Java based.
  - laumars 8y ago
    That's a little disingenuous because they're all JetBrains IDEs and thus are just variations of IntelliJ
  - 8y ago

cjallen88 8y ago

Yeah these days TCL is JITed too, which will certainly help

f0r 8y ago
It isn't JITed, I think you are thinking of byte code compilation.
- snaky 8y ago
  It's compiled in byte code, yes, but on-demand, so it's JIT.