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You're thinking purely within a capitalist framework. There is no capitalist solution to this problem. The solution is unprofitable. I encourage you to think ou

by cutler 8y ago

You're thinking purely within a capitalist framework. There is no capitalist solution to this problem. The solution is unprofitable. I encourage you to think outside this framework as humanity itself is at stake not just profits.

cbkeller 8y ago
Ok, so I could imagine rent control would work fine in (e.g.) the bay area if there was also (1) Government-built (or heavily subsidized) housing to get around the fact that rent control limits the capitalist demand for new housing (2) Strong central government to force out NIMBYs for the greater social good In this context, would you agree that rent control seems counterproductive unless we were to switch to a socialized economy overall? > There is no capitalist solution to this problem. I'm curious if others here would agree with this; I don't have a strong opinion yet.
conanbatt 8y ago
Really, housing is where capitalism breaks down.
- com2kid 8y ago
  Zoning screws with the free market. Look into how Japan does zoning[0] to see evidence that weak zoning laws and strong enforcement of individual property rights work together to keep property prices low. [0] https://www.ft.com/content/023562e2-54a6-11e6-befd-2fc0c26b3c60 https://www.ft.com/content/023562e2-54a6-11e6-befd-2fc0c26b3...
  - conanbatt 8y ago
    I was being sarcastic :)
com2kid 8y ago
Capitolist solutions exist to this problem, democracy keeps voting them down. Remove the majority of zoning, and the free market will solve the housing problem quite quickly. Sure houses will be up next to each other, and they'll be smaller, and the yards will cost even more than they do now, but housing will be affordable.
- idontpost 8y ago
  > Remove the majority of zoning Sure, factories with toxic waste in residential neighborhoods are a great idea! > Sure houses will be up next to each other And we learned nothing from the massive urban fires othe 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries apparently. All these onerous regulations you whinge about exist because thousands of people DIED from the conditions they outlaw.
  - com2kid 8y ago
    Majority of the rules, not all. Remove set backs, get rid of minimum yard requirements, loosen height restrictions. The rest of the world has houses right next to each other, as do America's most prosperous cities. Manhattan, the dense parts of SF, Boston, Chicago, etc. The regulations about minimum grass and 4 foot of set back and no more than 1 or 2 stories, have nothing to do with fire regs and everything to do with long disproven ideas about suburban design that hark back to 1950s ideals. Visit a modern dense city, Tokyo and London don't have massive fire outbreaks (sprinklers and modern fire codes still work even at density), but they do have an insane about of economic activity in the dense neighborhoods. Want to solve the housing crisis and get people off the streets? Dump 50% more houses on to the market, heck have cities subsidize their construction if need be, and watch housing prices plummet. Watch mass transit become the life blood of a city, and watch entire new types of jobs become available. (People in NYC may be annoyed at bike messengers, but it is a job created by density!)

by cutler 8y ago

cbkeller 8y ago

Ok, so I could imagine rent control would work fine in (e.g.) the bay area if there was also (1) Government-built (or heavily subsidized) housing to get around the fact that rent control limits the capitalist demand for new housing (2) Strong central government to force out NIMBYs for the greater social good In this context, would you agree that rent control seems counterproductive unless we were to switch to a socialized economy overall? > There is no capitalist solution to this problem. I'm curious if others here would agree with this; I don't have a strong opinion yet.

conanbatt 8y ago

Really, housing is where capitalism breaks down.

com2kid 8y ago
Zoning screws with the free market. Look into how Japan does zoning[0] to see evidence that weak zoning laws and strong enforcement of individual property rights work together to keep property prices low. [0] https://www.ft.com/content/023562e2-54a6-11e6-befd-2fc0c26b3c60 https://www.ft.com/content/023562e2-54a6-11e6-befd-2fc0c26b3...
- conanbatt 8y ago
  I was being sarcastic :)

com2kid 8y ago

Capitolist solutions exist to this problem, democracy keeps voting them down. Remove the majority of zoning, and the free market will solve the housing problem quite quickly. Sure houses will be up next to each other, and they'll be smaller, and the yards will cost even more than they do now, but housing will be affordable.

idontpost 8y ago
> Remove the majority of zoning Sure, factories with toxic waste in residential neighborhoods are a great idea! > Sure houses will be up next to each other And we learned nothing from the massive urban fires othe 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries apparently. All these onerous regulations you whinge about exist because thousands of people DIED from the conditions they outlaw.
- com2kid 8y ago
  Majority of the rules, not all. Remove set backs, get rid of minimum yard requirements, loosen height restrictions. The rest of the world has houses right next to each other, as do America's most prosperous cities. Manhattan, the dense parts of SF, Boston, Chicago, etc. The regulations about minimum grass and 4 foot of set back and no more than 1 or 2 stories, have nothing to do with fire regs and everything to do with long disproven ideas about suburban design that hark back to 1950s ideals. Visit a modern dense city, Tokyo and London don't have massive fire outbreaks (sprinklers and modern fire codes still work even at density), but they do have an insane about of economic activity in the dense neighborhoods. Want to solve the housing crisis and get people off the streets? Dump 50% more houses on to the market, heck have cities subsidize their construction if need be, and watch housing prices plummet. Watch mass transit become the life blood of a city, and watch entire new types of jobs become available. (People in NYC may be annoyed at bike messengers, but it is a job created by density!)