4 ms·

The equivalent opinion of "disband one agency" is not a "Worker's Revolution", it's "disband one corporation/industry", and there are plenty of those opinions o

by tdhoot 8y ago

The equivalent opinion of "disband one agency" is not a "Worker's Revolution", it's "disband one corporation/industry", and there are plenty of those opinions on the left (tech monopolies, oil/gas, defense contractors, etc.) The equivalent argument to a Worker's Revolution on the right would be the disbanding of the Federal government or a reduction to independence-day levels. That opinion does not exist in Congress either.

hobs 8y ago
I'd disagree given "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." is the most famous Grover Norquist quote, and he spent a good portion of his life towards doing this very thing.
roywiggins 8y ago
Saying corporations should be broken up is not the same as saying there should be no corporations. The former is just old-fashioned antitrust and yeah, definitely has some sway on the left. A split-up Google just makes bunch of corporations; abolishing tech corporations entirely and taking them over as a public utility or worker's cooperative is what I'm getting at. "This particular corporation is too big" is a mainstream-but-lefty opinion; "this corporation should be expropriated and owned by the public" is not a mainstream opinion. Steve Bannon is on record as wanting to dismantle the "administrative state", he held the ear of the President for a while. The head of the CFPB doesn't think the CFPB should exist. Paul Ryan wants to privatise Social Security. "Shrink government enough to drown it in a bathtub" is a Grover Norquist quote. They may not want to roll back the entire government to Independence Day but they do want to take it back to the 19th century if it means they can cut taxes. They don't just want less regulation; they want the feds to get out of the business of regulating industry at all.
- tdhoot 8y ago
  I'm not sure if we're speaking past each other, but it seems we're both making the same point. The right is not advocating for the complete destruction of the Government. The left is not advocating for the removal of corporations as a legal entity. Those two positions are equivalent and neither side has cachet at the moment. The destruction of certain government agencies is closer to the breakup of certain corporations or industries than it is to the right-equivalent of a Worker's Revolution.
  - roywiggins 8y ago
    I guess I'm equating "oil corporations should not exist" with "oil corporations should not be regulated by the feds". The latter seems to have some sway with the current administration, see: https://slate.com/culture/2018/11/john-oliver-last-week-tonight-drain-the-swamp-scott-angelle.html https://slate.com/culture/2018/11/john-oliver-last-week-toni... This guy does not seem worried that he might look a bit cozy with the industry he is supposedly regulating; he's practically asking the industry to ask him for leniency. There are countries with state oil companies and nobody is advocating for that; but there seems to be people advocating for the total abdication of regulation of oil companies. If there's a continuum between "state run" and "fully unregulated", the "fully unregulated" side seems to have a certain amount of sway whereas the other end doesn't.
  - specialist 8y ago
    "The right is not advocating for the complete destruction of the Government." Government is not the solution, it is the problem. -- Ronald Reagan. Shrink government so that it can be drowned in a bathtub. -- Grover Nordquist.
mikeash 8y ago
That "corporation/industry" combination is bizarre. Those are very different things. Disbanding a corporation means others will fill in. Disbanding an entire industry is basically unheard of and would be incredibly disruptive. Consider the current call on the left to abolish ICE. The right paints this as meaning "abolish the border patrol" but that's not what it actually means. The call is to either pass the responsibilities to other agencies, or create a new agency. That would be like disbanding a corporation. Now consider the calls on the right to abolish the EPA. The intent is not that the EPA's responsibilities get picked up by other agencies or passed to a new agency. The intent is that those responsibilities cease. I don't see any movement to disband the industries you mention. The closest would be oil/gas, and even then the movement is not to disband them, but to regulate them so that they actually bear the costs of the damage they cause, and let the market take its natural course from there.
jonathankoren 8y ago
>The equivalent argument to a Worker's Revolution on the right would be the disbanding of the Federal government or a reduction to independence-day levels. That opinion does not exist in Congress either. Rep Ron Paul (R-TX) until 2013. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Pau...

by tdhoot 8y ago

hobs 8y ago

I'd disagree given "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." is the most famous Grover Norquist quote, and he spent a good portion of his life towards doing this very thing.

roywiggins 8y ago

Saying corporations should be broken up is not the same as saying there should be no corporations. The former is just old-fashioned antitrust and yeah, definitely has some sway on the left. A split-up Google just makes bunch of corporations; abolishing tech corporations entirely and taking them over as a public utility or worker's cooperative is what I'm getting at. "This particular corporation is too big" is a mainstream-but-lefty opinion; "this corporation should be expropriated and owned by the public" is not a mainstream opinion. Steve Bannon is on record as wanting to dismantle the "administrative state", he held the ear of the President for a while. The head of the CFPB doesn't think the CFPB should exist. Paul Ryan wants to privatise Social Security. "Shrink government enough to drown it in a bathtub" is a Grover Norquist quote. They may not want to roll back the entire government to Independence Day but they do want to take it back to the 19th century if it means they can cut taxes. They don't just want less regulation; they want the feds to get out of the business of regulating industry at all.

tdhoot 8y ago
I'm not sure if we're speaking past each other, but it seems we're both making the same point. The right is not advocating for the complete destruction of the Government. The left is not advocating for the removal of corporations as a legal entity. Those two positions are equivalent and neither side has cachet at the moment. The destruction of certain government agencies is closer to the breakup of certain corporations or industries than it is to the right-equivalent of a Worker's Revolution.
- roywiggins 8y ago
  I guess I'm equating "oil corporations should not exist" with "oil corporations should not be regulated by the feds". The latter seems to have some sway with the current administration, see: https://slate.com/culture/2018/11/john-oliver-last-week-tonight-drain-the-swamp-scott-angelle.html https://slate.com/culture/2018/11/john-oliver-last-week-toni... This guy does not seem worried that he might look a bit cozy with the industry he is supposedly regulating; he's practically asking the industry to ask him for leniency. There are countries with state oil companies and nobody is advocating for that; but there seems to be people advocating for the total abdication of regulation of oil companies. If there's a continuum between "state run" and "fully unregulated", the "fully unregulated" side seems to have a certain amount of sway whereas the other end doesn't.
- specialist 8y ago
  "The right is not advocating for the complete destruction of the Government." Government is not the solution, it is the problem. -- Ronald Reagan. Shrink government so that it can be drowned in a bathtub. -- Grover Nordquist.

mikeash 8y ago

That "corporation/industry" combination is bizarre. Those are very different things. Disbanding a corporation means others will fill in. Disbanding an entire industry is basically unheard of and would be incredibly disruptive. Consider the current call on the left to abolish ICE. The right paints this as meaning "abolish the border patrol" but that's not what it actually means. The call is to either pass the responsibilities to other agencies, or create a new agency. That would be like disbanding a corporation. Now consider the calls on the right to abolish the EPA. The intent is not that the EPA's responsibilities get picked up by other agencies or passed to a new agency. The intent is that those responsibilities cease. I don't see any movement to disband the industries you mention. The closest would be oil/gas, and even then the movement is not to disband them, but to regulate them so that they actually bear the costs of the damage they cause, and let the market take its natural course from there.

jonathankoren 8y ago

>The equivalent argument to a Worker's Revolution on the right would be the disbanding of the Federal government or a reduction to independence-day levels. That opinion does not exist in Congress either. Rep Ron Paul (R-TX) until 2013. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Pau...