5 ms·

I like how everybody is an expert on the drug trade because we've all seen a 60 Minutes piece on violence in Mexico. Violence in Mexico is not a new trend and

by xelipe 16y ago

I like how everybody is an expert on the drug trade because we've all seen a 60 Minutes piece on violence in Mexico. Violence in Mexico is not a new trend and neither is the hysteria of violence spilling over. The fear of violence spilling in to the United States from Mexico was prominent one other time, during the Mexican Revolution. The current thread of drug related violence in Mexico is often attributed to the presidency of Felipe Calderon but it can actually be traced back to at least 25 years as it is evident in the culture of the narco that is prevalent there. We can shut down the drug cartels in Mexico, like we did in Columbia, but the drug trade will be next be passed to another country like a baton. The next country to be promoted as a drug state will be Afghanistan with it's fields of poppies fulling the growing heroin demand. I'm all for Proposition 19, but legalizing marijuana will not stop drug cartels just like legalizing prostitution does not stop the flow on human traffic.

uuilly 16y ago
I was talking about Afghanistan, opium and RPG's. I was also speaking from personal experience not from TV experience.
- rdl 16y ago
  Afghanistan is actually much simpler than Mexico, making the case for either decriminalizing opium or at least doing the Italian red cross plan of buying all the opium produced much more significant than it is in Mexico, as I'm sure you're aware. Drug smuggling out is fairly widespread and finances bad stuff; very little else is smuggled in or out, except for a bit of quasi-legitimate reimport of stuff on the Pakistan border to get around absurd Pakistani tariffs on stuff like cars, and moving fighters across the Pakistan border. Child (or general human trafficking) isn't a viable market: Afghanistan can't afford to smuggle children in, and Afghan children mainly are consumed in the domestic market. ("woman for breeding, boy for pleasure, melon for sheer delight"). Very few Afghan women become prostitutes outside of Afghanistan or Pakistan (unlike Iraqi women in the neighboring states/Gulf). There aren't many migrant workers moving across the borders either, mainly due to a lack of an economy in any of the neighboring states. Iran and Pakistan have a fair number of refugees, but they are fairly static, and don't actually work in Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Iran. Eliminating opium as a profit source would eliminate the weird choice between befriending farmers as local allies AQ/Taliban vs. destroying opium (and thus making those farmers into enemies or enemy sympathizers for purely economic reasons), and would definance most of the Taliban (if not AQ, still financed via Saudi recreational jihadis).
kablamo 16y ago
> We can shut down the drug cartels in Mexico, like we did in Columbia, but the drug trade will be next be passed to another country like a baton. Sounds like an argument for legalizing drugs. > legalizing marijuana will not stop drug cartels just like legalizing prostitution does not stop the flow on human traffic Why not? Legalizing alchohol did seem to stop the flow of moonshine.
- xelipe 16y ago
  Mexico has decriminalized possession of drugs for personal use[1]. The most noted country to do so is Portugal. But this alone does not address the drug trade. Touché in regards to the commend on moonshine. But it is well document that The Netherlands, who have a long standing liberal view on prostitution, are a leading destination of human traffic[2]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_liberalization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_liberalization [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_Netherlands#Human_trafficking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_Netherlands...
  - seabee 16y ago
    [2]'s only example is a case where women were brought to the Netherlands then sent to neighbouring countries for prostitution. If this is the norm, then it's not unreasonable to think the liberal laws are merely a low-risk funnel for traffickers rather than increasing demand for sex workers.
nico 16y ago
> We can shut down the drug cartels in Mexico, like we did in Columbia, but the drug trade will be next be passed to another country like a baton. The next country to be promoted as a drug state will be Afghanistan with it's fields of poppies fulling the growing heroin demand. So American, lets just go and make a mess where nobody called us. Anyway, if you were so successful shutting down the cartels in Colombia, how come it is still the world's leading producer of Cocaine[1]? [1] https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/co.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...
- VladRussian 16y ago
  >if you were so successful shutting down the cartels in Colombia, how come it is still the world's leading producer of Cocaine[1]? who said that it is the cartels who produce the cocaine nowdays? How about government for example?

by xelipe 16y ago

uuilly 16y ago

I was talking about Afghanistan, opium and RPG's. I was also speaking from personal experience not from TV experience.

rdl 16y ago
Afghanistan is actually much simpler than Mexico, making the case for either decriminalizing opium or at least doing the Italian red cross plan of buying all the opium produced much more significant than it is in Mexico, as I'm sure you're aware. Drug smuggling out is fairly widespread and finances bad stuff; very little else is smuggled in or out, except for a bit of quasi-legitimate reimport of stuff on the Pakistan border to get around absurd Pakistani tariffs on stuff like cars, and moving fighters across the Pakistan border. Child (or general human trafficking) isn't a viable market: Afghanistan can't afford to smuggle children in, and Afghan children mainly are consumed in the domestic market. ("woman for breeding, boy for pleasure, melon for sheer delight"). Very few Afghan women become prostitutes outside of Afghanistan or Pakistan (unlike Iraqi women in the neighboring states/Gulf). There aren't many migrant workers moving across the borders either, mainly due to a lack of an economy in any of the neighboring states. Iran and Pakistan have a fair number of refugees, but they are fairly static, and don't actually work in Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Iran. Eliminating opium as a profit source would eliminate the weird choice between befriending farmers as local allies AQ/Taliban vs. destroying opium (and thus making those farmers into enemies or enemy sympathizers for purely economic reasons), and would definance most of the Taliban (if not AQ, still financed via Saudi recreational jihadis).

kablamo 16y ago

> We can shut down the drug cartels in Mexico, like we did in Columbia, but the drug trade will be next be passed to another country like a baton. Sounds like an argument for legalizing drugs. > legalizing marijuana will not stop drug cartels just like legalizing prostitution does not stop the flow on human traffic Why not? Legalizing alchohol did seem to stop the flow of moonshine.

xelipe 16y ago
Mexico has decriminalized possession of drugs for personal use[1]. The most noted country to do so is Portugal. But this alone does not address the drug trade. Touché in regards to the commend on moonshine. But it is well document that The Netherlands, who have a long standing liberal view on prostitution, are a leading destination of human traffic[2]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_liberalization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_liberalization [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_Netherlands#Human_trafficking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_Netherlands...
- seabee 16y ago
  [2]'s only example is a case where women were brought to the Netherlands then sent to neighbouring countries for prostitution. If this is the norm, then it's not unreasonable to think the liberal laws are merely a low-risk funnel for traffickers rather than increasing demand for sex workers.

nico 16y ago

> We can shut down the drug cartels in Mexico, like we did in Columbia, but the drug trade will be next be passed to another country like a baton. The next country to be promoted as a drug state will be Afghanistan with it's fields of poppies fulling the growing heroin demand. So American, lets just go and make a mess where nobody called us. Anyway, if you were so successful shutting down the cartels in Colombia, how come it is still the world's leading producer of Cocaine[1]? [1] https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/co.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...

VladRussian 16y ago
>if you were so successful shutting down the cartels in Colombia, how come it is still the world's leading producer of Cocaine[1]? who said that it is the cartels who produce the cocaine nowdays? How about government for example?