4 ms·

How can we accomplish this without being a nanny state? I see more and more that people that are on fringes don't even want to try to work anymore because they

How can we accomplish this without being a nanny state? I see more and more that people that are on fringes don't even want to try to work anymore because they don't have to with all the safety nets in place. I don't know the answer, but I think I do know why you will go to your grave without it being solved - GOP vs Dems solution to this is the exact opposite, and we are permanently stuck. We can't go full bore on either solution (both of which can probably work to some extent) but instead we're 100% deadlocked for the rest of time.

th0ma5 8y ago
> I see more and more that people that are on fringes don't even want to try to work anymore because they don't have to with all the safety nets in place. See them? Where? In articles? Friends?
- rhacker 8y ago
  Friends, Family and billions of articles https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2018/05/05/sure-unemployment-went-down-because-the-number-of-people-working-did/#4cd6d00408bc https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2018/05/05/sure-une...
  - rconti 8y ago
    Literally the only mention of a social safety net in the linked article was "fewer people working means less income and wealth — as well as long-term economic stability creating pressure on social safety nets, such as they are." The wording implies that there is not much of a social safety net to begin with. Can you cite some of the actual programs? My understanding is the social safety net is the weakest it's been in many decades. Perhaps I'm wrong, but my "general feeling" seems at least as valuable as your general feeling. Unemployment insurance and temporary assistance are both that, temporary. Social Security Disability is, I believe, considered the most widely abused program simply because there aren't many others left to abuse.
mAEStro-paNDa 8y ago
The US already acts as a nanny state for it's rich corporations.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ImRichKillMe 8y ago
Yeah we are until we stop be too greedy to help people who need it. You talk about work but lets examine how much work the richest people actually do. Delegation doesn't count as real work. Having money to pay someone else to do work also doesn't count as real work.
zanny 8y ago
It takes less than a whole person to supply a common western standard of living to a person living in the west. This means it takes a subset of the population to provide for the well-being of the whole. This is why unemployment is such a problem today. The only demand for labor is for experienced, skilled labor that can innovate for capitalists to make them more money. The grunt work the average person would want done (new construction, infrastructure rennovation, etc) is wanted by people who don't have the capital to see it happen. The rest are a fraction of the population that keeps society running. We saw in this last century an approach to 1% of the population being responsible for the farming and raising of all the food we consume. Another percent will package and transport it. Maybe another percent will prepare and cook it if not for us doing it ourselves. The number of people employed in the industries of resource extraction and power generation, power line maintenance, home construction, furniture production, and so on... many of which are skilled professions that require educations many of the displaced don't have time or money to acquire... all combined aren't even close to a quarter the population. A lot of that productivity was exported overseas as well, exacerbating the problem. We aren't in a situation where you should look at the homeless and say "I'm so mad they aren't working because I don't have X or Y and they could make it / get it for me". You have everything you want. You can't think of anything you are willing to pay them to do with the skills they have. There is nothing for them to do anyone is willing to pay them for or invest in them to achieve.
gnulinux 8y ago
US already is a nanny state. Can you imagine a country spending so much money on spying their own citizens? You must be confusing yourself, or surely must be joking.

th0ma5 8y ago

> I see more and more that people that are on fringes don't even want to try to work anymore because they don't have to with all the safety nets in place. See them? Where? In articles? Friends?

rhacker 8y ago
Friends, Family and billions of articles https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2018/05/05/sure-unemployment-went-down-because-the-number-of-people-working-did/#4cd6d00408bc https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2018/05/05/sure-une...
- rconti 8y ago
  Literally the only mention of a social safety net in the linked article was "fewer people working means less income and wealth — as well as long-term economic stability creating pressure on social safety nets, such as they are." The wording implies that there is not much of a social safety net to begin with. Can you cite some of the actual programs? My understanding is the social safety net is the weakest it's been in many decades. Perhaps I'm wrong, but my "general feeling" seems at least as valuable as your general feeling. Unemployment insurance and temporary assistance are both that, temporary. Social Security Disability is, I believe, considered the most widely abused program simply because there aren't many others left to abuse.

mAEStro-paNDa 8y ago

The US already acts as a nanny state for it's rich corporations.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

ImRichKillMe 8y ago

Yeah we are until we stop be too greedy to help people who need it. You talk about work but lets examine how much work the richest people actually do. Delegation doesn't count as real work. Having money to pay someone else to do work also doesn't count as real work.

zanny 8y ago

It takes less than a whole person to supply a common western standard of living to a person living in the west. This means it takes a subset of the population to provide for the well-being of the whole. This is why unemployment is such a problem today. The only demand for labor is for experienced, skilled labor that can innovate for capitalists to make them more money. The grunt work the average person would want done (new construction, infrastructure rennovation, etc) is wanted by people who don't have the capital to see it happen. The rest are a fraction of the population that keeps society running. We saw in this last century an approach to 1% of the population being responsible for the farming and raising of all the food we consume. Another percent will package and transport it. Maybe another percent will prepare and cook it if not for us doing it ourselves. The number of people employed in the industries of resource extraction and power generation, power line maintenance, home construction, furniture production, and so on... many of which are skilled professions that require educations many of the displaced don't have time or money to acquire... all combined aren't even close to a quarter the population. A lot of that productivity was exported overseas as well, exacerbating the problem. We aren't in a situation where you should look at the homeless and say "I'm so mad they aren't working because I don't have X or Y and they could make it / get it for me". You have everything you want. You can't think of anything you are willing to pay them to do with the skills they have. There is nothing for them to do anyone is willing to pay them for or invest in them to achieve.

gnulinux 8y ago

US already is a nanny state. Can you imagine a country spending so much money on spying their own citizens? You must be confusing yourself, or surely must be joking.