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It's bad. The A/C/J/Z lines still contain R32 cars, which were built 54 years ago, and are 20 years past their service life. These cars were built before the m

It's bad. The A/C/J/Z lines still contain R32 cars, which were built 54 years ago, and are 20 years past their service life. These cars were built before the moon landing, have terrible brakes, have terrible air conditioning, and are, generally speaking, sweltering rattly deathtraps. The Second Avenue line is 100 years in the making and has a grand total of...drum roll...3 stations. That opened in 2017. But hey, they're getting WiFi in the tunnels and installing flatscreen TVs in the stations. Three cheers for more ad space! Personally, I'd rather have less station closures, less delays, and less stopping-and-waiting-20-minutes because of track congestion.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jumelles 8y ago
> WiFi in the tunnels and installing flatscreen TVs ... less station closures, less delays, and less stopping-and-waiting-20-minutes because of track congestion Some of these are much easier fixes than others.
- huehehue 8y ago
  Fair point. How about a drain/pump system to prevent stations from flooding every time it rains? Or cleaning the tracks more frequently to reduce fires? Or fixing the broken intercoms in the cars, so I can at least be warned about surprise service modifications?
  - pgodzin 8y ago
    To do more cleaning you need more station closures and delays
    - cc439 8y ago
      How hard is it to build a vacuum/sweeper car and run half a dozen of them during the slowest times at night?
nine_k 8y ago
Mobile reception and wi-fi on stations, and displays with helpful info and arrivals / departures are very welcome additions, and likely did not cost a lot. Consumer-grade connectivity within tunnels is likely piggy-backed on the connectivity required for the trains infrastructure. Currently the subway operates a system from 1930s to control the lights and detect train positions. It is based on mechanical / magnetic relays, and is prone to break often. Replacing that with redundant modern electronics and fiber optics wold increase MTBF dramatically, lowering maintenance costs and wait times. One thing that the current antiquated system is limiting is train speed. Trains used to be faster, but were slowed down because of safety reasons. If the new connectivity allows them to run 30% faster again (or even faster, where the tracks allow), that would be a huge win. (Written on a subway train crawling through the ancient tunnels.)
- nemo44x 8y ago
  > Mobile reception and wi-fi on stations, and displays with helpful info and arrivals / departures are very welcome additions, and likely did not cost a lot. Installing countdown clocks on only the lettered subway lines cost $209 million. This doesn't include the numbered lines which have had them for about 10 years which also cost hundreds of millions. In all the project took 29 years. [1] If you want to know how much it cost to install WiFi is was budgeted for $200 million and ended up at around $300 million. [2] Remember how that healthcare.gov Website cost hundreds of millions and was a failure? It cost $250 million and came with a $75 million maintenance cost. And then a small group came in at the end and fixed it for $4 million with yearly maintenance of $1 million? Well, the MTA has a ton of these projects. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/why-dont-we-know-where-all-the-trains-are/415152/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/why-d... [2] https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/17/engineering-against-all-odds/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/17/engineering-against-all-od...
  - throwaway-10001 8y ago
    > If you want to know how much it cost to install WiFi is was budgeted for $200 million and ended up at around $300 million. Except that none of this money came from the MTA. The complete project was funded by private entities. Most of the cost was passed through to the four major wireless carriers. Those carriers continue to pay, on a monthly basis, for their ability to offer services in the Subway and the MTA receives portion of that payment. So, from the MTA's perspective, this project generates revenue. Same goes for a number of similar projects.
ryanwaggoner 8y ago
The Second Ave line is a disaster like you'd expect in any multi-billion-dollar infrastructure in the US, but it's not fair to call it "100 years in the making". It was proposed and planned 100 years ago, but cancelled. Then they worked on it for three years in the 70s, but the recent work wasn't begun until 2007. Again, still a disaster, but an order of magnitude less than how "100 years in the making" makes it sound. They weren't working on it steadily since 1919 :)
freddie_mercury 8y ago
> are, generally speaking, sweltering rattly deathtraps How many people die on them every year? Are they really deathtraps? Or are they just old train cars?
aylmao 8y ago
Not to mention the state of the stations. I don't think they've been maintained or even cleaned in years.
- ghthor 8y ago
  The not being cleaned is concerning ne a lot. The 34th herald square stop air smells like infection, avoid that station at all costs.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

jumelles 8y ago

> WiFi in the tunnels and installing flatscreen TVs ... less station closures, less delays, and less stopping-and-waiting-20-minutes because of track congestion Some of these are much easier fixes than others.

huehehue 8y ago
Fair point. How about a drain/pump system to prevent stations from flooding every time it rains? Or cleaning the tracks more frequently to reduce fires? Or fixing the broken intercoms in the cars, so I can at least be warned about surprise service modifications?
- pgodzin 8y ago
  To do more cleaning you need more station closures and delays
  - cc439 8y ago
    How hard is it to build a vacuum/sweeper car and run half a dozen of them during the slowest times at night?

nine_k 8y ago

Mobile reception and wi-fi on stations, and displays with helpful info and arrivals / departures are very welcome additions, and likely did not cost a lot. Consumer-grade connectivity within tunnels is likely piggy-backed on the connectivity required for the trains infrastructure. Currently the subway operates a system from 1930s to control the lights and detect train positions. It is based on mechanical / magnetic relays, and is prone to break often. Replacing that with redundant modern electronics and fiber optics wold increase MTBF dramatically, lowering maintenance costs and wait times. One thing that the current antiquated system is limiting is train speed. Trains used to be faster, but were slowed down because of safety reasons. If the new connectivity allows them to run 30% faster again (or even faster, where the tracks allow), that would be a huge win. (Written on a subway train crawling through the ancient tunnels.)

nemo44x 8y ago
> Mobile reception and wi-fi on stations, and displays with helpful info and arrivals / departures are very welcome additions, and likely did not cost a lot. Installing countdown clocks on only the lettered subway lines cost $209 million. This doesn't include the numbered lines which have had them for about 10 years which also cost hundreds of millions. In all the project took 29 years. [1] If you want to know how much it cost to install WiFi is was budgeted for $200 million and ended up at around $300 million. [2] Remember how that healthcare.gov Website cost hundreds of millions and was a failure? It cost $250 million and came with a $75 million maintenance cost. And then a small group came in at the end and fixed it for $4 million with yearly maintenance of $1 million? Well, the MTA has a ton of these projects. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/why-dont-we-know-where-all-the-trains-are/415152/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/why-d... [2] https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/17/engineering-against-all-odds/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/17/engineering-against-all-od...
- throwaway-10001 8y ago
  > If you want to know how much it cost to install WiFi is was budgeted for $200 million and ended up at around $300 million. Except that none of this money came from the MTA. The complete project was funded by private entities. Most of the cost was passed through to the four major wireless carriers. Those carriers continue to pay, on a monthly basis, for their ability to offer services in the Subway and the MTA receives portion of that payment. So, from the MTA's perspective, this project generates revenue. Same goes for a number of similar projects.

ryanwaggoner 8y ago

The Second Ave line is a disaster like you'd expect in any multi-billion-dollar infrastructure in the US, but it's not fair to call it "100 years in the making". It was proposed and planned 100 years ago, but cancelled. Then they worked on it for three years in the 70s, but the recent work wasn't begun until 2007. Again, still a disaster, but an order of magnitude less than how "100 years in the making" makes it sound. They weren't working on it steadily since 1919 :)

freddie_mercury 8y ago

> are, generally speaking, sweltering rattly deathtraps How many people die on them every year? Are they really deathtraps? Or are they just old train cars?

aylmao 8y ago

Not to mention the state of the stations. I don't think they've been maintained or even cleaned in years.

ghthor 8y ago
The not being cleaned is concerning ne a lot. The 34th herald square stop air smells like infection, avoid that station at all costs.