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One of the nice 'features' of QR codes is they're instantly recognizable as QR codes due to the 3 registration marks, and so it's obvious you could pull out you

One of the nice 'features' of QR codes is they're instantly recognizable as QR codes due to the 3 registration marks, and so it's obvious you could pull out your phone and scan one (not that anyone does that). JAB codes just look like a jumble of colored pixels -- it's not obvious it's encoded data, if you were to see this "in the wild". It kind of misses another potential feature, which is registration marks could also establish a baseline for colors, which a reader/scanner could then use to compensate for differences in color reproduction (due to printing / screen settings / etc).

neetdeth 8y ago
Technical specification is here: https://www.bsi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/EN/BSI/Publications/TechGuidelines/TR03137/BSI-TR-03137_Part2.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2 https://www.bsi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/EN/BSI/Publicat... Every JAB code has four registration patterns in the corners, as well as multiple color pallets at fixed locations.
- rwmj 8y ago
  I think OP's point was that humans can't recognize those features. Edit: I should have said untrained humans.
  - ivanbakel 8y ago
    OP did also say that the registration marks had machine benefits, for which it's worth noting that they are defined, even if humans can't spot them.
  - neetdeth 8y ago
    I can recognize those features. Sure, you need to look for them, but why would anyone care to? Surely after encountering only a few RGB codes the average person will have no trouble inferring that a jumble of colored blocks against a white background is likely to be encoded data. Same "training process" as needed for QR codes - although in this case the quiet zone is not needed, so you _could_ use these in a deliberately obscure fashion if you wanted, which isn't a shortcoming.
    - derefr 8y ago
      Yes, you're able to realize that any given RGB mess-of-pixels printed somewhere is "likely to be encoded data", but maybe, you'll think, there might be multiple standards for RGB-encoded data (there are) and so, what standard does this code obey? Is it one your phone can parse? QR codes are able to be recognized as QR codes, which means you're able to think "I could definitely scan that", rather than thinking "that is some data there, that I could maybe read or maybe not." It's the same as the difference between saying that data on the wire is "a TCP packet" vs saying it's "HTTP." Yes, either way, you know that you've got some packets—but if you want to parse them, you'd better be able to recognize the format of those packets.
      - neetdeth 8y ago
        We're thankfully not cursed with a multitude of competing standards for bilevel monochrome 2D codes (they do exist, but 90+ percent of everything out in the wild is QR). I don't think an end user is going to be competent to understand the differences between them in any case. The standard operating procedure will continue to be "point the scanner at it and hope for the best." If multiple competing standards do become popular, the most likely result is that scanners support all of them and we just eat the software bloat.
      - pygy_ 8y ago
        There are also multiple standards for black and white 2d bar codes. This is backed by the Fraunhofer Society and the German government, and on tracks to become an ISO standard. It will be implemented in scanners (hardware and software).
        jschwartzi 8y ago
        Yes, and most people are not aware that there are multiple barcode standards, even with 1D barcodes. Ask anyone what the difference is between Interleaved 2of5, Code 39, Code128, UPC/EAN, PostNet, etc. and they'll be hard-pressed to identify any of the distinguishing characteristics that are immediately obvious to the trained eye.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- x13 8y ago
  Hey on page 29 does anyone see a pattern that resembles.. historical German symbology used by to represent national pride and a government party that rose to power in the 1920's? Am I the only one? Sorry, just popped out at me.
  - Faark 8y ago
    Yeah, but I'd give them the benefit of a doubt unless it's visible on actual codes or there is evidence this was intentional. You end up with that pattern all the time when you try to efficiently pack rectangles around a different sized rectangle. I remember trying to avoid that back when placing fields in age of empires 2.
Lerc 8y ago
You could have an optional border around it. A black border containing a colour spectrum centered on each side would make for a distinctive "this is one of those JAB thingies" appearance. A border might be required anyway if tightly packing codes makes it too difficult to tell where one code ends and another begins.
- kakarot 8y ago
  A black border with two tiny transparent, black-outlined squares next to the NE corner, one on each side. A system like this would allow different protocols and versions to use different symbols in different corners so that phones and people could recognize which it is at a glance.
m1sta_ 8y ago
There are many instances where the iconography of QR codes is a problem.
JdeBP 8y ago
It has finder patterns and alignment patterns, and the finder patterns are surrounded by metadata that specify the colour palette for decoders to use.
stefanpie 8y ago
QR codes also will always work in grayscale.
- LoSboccacc 8y ago
  they also work in two tone colors, so they don't ruin a billboard/leaflet aesthetic (even if there are a lot of reader out there that get confused by a white pattern on dark background code, even if the spec allows it)
NedIsakoff 8y ago
I use Alipay on a daily basis, all scanning QR codes.

neetdeth 8y ago

Technical specification is here: https://www.bsi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/EN/BSI/Publications/TechGuidelines/TR03137/BSI-TR-03137_Part2.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2 https://www.bsi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/EN/BSI/Publicat... Every JAB code has four registration patterns in the corners, as well as multiple color pallets at fixed locations.

rwmj 8y ago
I think OP's point was that humans can't recognize those features. Edit: I should have said untrained humans.
- ivanbakel 8y ago
  OP did also say that the registration marks had machine benefits, for which it's worth noting that they are defined, even if humans can't spot them.
- neetdeth 8y ago
  I can recognize those features. Sure, you need to look for them, but why would anyone care to? Surely after encountering only a few RGB codes the average person will have no trouble inferring that a jumble of colored blocks against a white background is likely to be encoded data. Same "training process" as needed for QR codes - although in this case the quiet zone is not needed, so you _could_ use these in a deliberately obscure fashion if you wanted, which isn't a shortcoming.
  - derefr 8y ago
    Yes, you're able to realize that any given RGB mess-of-pixels printed somewhere is "likely to be encoded data", but maybe, you'll think, there might be multiple standards for RGB-encoded data (there are) and so, what standard does this code obey? Is it one your phone can parse? QR codes are able to be recognized as QR codes, which means you're able to think "I could definitely scan that", rather than thinking "that is some data there, that I could maybe read or maybe not." It's the same as the difference between saying that data on the wire is "a TCP packet" vs saying it's "HTTP." Yes, either way, you know that you've got some packets—but if you want to parse them, you'd better be able to recognize the format of those packets.
    - neetdeth 8y ago
      We're thankfully not cursed with a multitude of competing standards for bilevel monochrome 2D codes (they do exist, but 90+ percent of everything out in the wild is QR). I don't think an end user is going to be competent to understand the differences between them in any case. The standard operating procedure will continue to be "point the scanner at it and hope for the best." If multiple competing standards do become popular, the most likely result is that scanners support all of them and we just eat the software bloat.
    - pygy_ 8y ago
      There are also multiple standards for black and white 2d bar codes. This is backed by the Fraunhofer Society and the German government, and on tracks to become an ISO standard. It will be implemented in scanners (hardware and software).
      - jschwartzi 8y ago
        Yes, and most people are not aware that there are multiple barcode standards, even with 1D barcodes. Ask anyone what the difference is between Interleaved 2of5, Code 39, Code128, UPC/EAN, PostNet, etc. and they'll be hard-pressed to identify any of the distinguishing characteristics that are immediately obvious to the trained eye.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
x13 8y ago
Hey on page 29 does anyone see a pattern that resembles.. historical German symbology used by to represent national pride and a government party that rose to power in the 1920's? Am I the only one? Sorry, just popped out at me.
- Faark 8y ago
  Yeah, but I'd give them the benefit of a doubt unless it's visible on actual codes or there is evidence this was intentional. You end up with that pattern all the time when you try to efficiently pack rectangles around a different sized rectangle. I remember trying to avoid that back when placing fields in age of empires 2.

Lerc 8y ago

You could have an optional border around it. A black border containing a colour spectrum centered on each side would make for a distinctive "this is one of those JAB thingies" appearance. A border might be required anyway if tightly packing codes makes it too difficult to tell where one code ends and another begins.

kakarot 8y ago
A black border with two tiny transparent, black-outlined squares next to the NE corner, one on each side. A system like this would allow different protocols and versions to use different symbols in different corners so that phones and people could recognize which it is at a glance.

m1sta_ 8y ago

There are many instances where the iconography of QR codes is a problem.

JdeBP 8y ago

It has finder patterns and alignment patterns, and the finder patterns are surrounded by metadata that specify the colour palette for decoders to use.

stefanpie 8y ago

QR codes also will always work in grayscale.

LoSboccacc 8y ago
they also work in two tone colors, so they don't ruin a billboard/leaflet aesthetic (even if there are a lot of reader out there that get confused by a white pattern on dark background code, even if the spec allows it)

NedIsakoff 8y ago

I use Alipay on a daily basis, all scanning QR codes.