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>Apple removing it, but not removing imgur, reddit, or any other site as an app, is playing favorites and making excuses. That doesn't match what they are clai

by jmull 8y ago

>Apple removing it, but not removing imgur, reddit, or any other site as an app, is playing favorites and making excuses. That doesn't match what they are claiming though. Apple requires such sites to have a filter to prevent child-porn and the claim here is that Tumblr was removed for not having one that works. If those other services have a filter that works (sufficiently, I guess) while Tumblr doesn't, then it's not playing favorites, it's just having a policy and enforcing it. To limit the dissemination of child-porn. It might be hard to sue for that.

wlesieutre 8y ago
Safari to be removed from iOS 13 due to child pornography issues because some websites don’t have a filter
- bitwize 8y ago
  Apple apps automatically get an exemption from all App Store rules.
- jmull 8y ago
  I think the guideline applies to apps with user-generated content. Now, I'm sure you can come up with an argument about why this still applies to Safari... but it's also easy to come up with an argument about why it does not. Certainly, the relationship between the content and the app is much more tenuous for Safari -- where the content is everything published on the web by anyone -- and the Tumblr app, where the objectionable content is hosted by and for the Tumblr app. In the end, you can argue Apple should have drawn the line about responsibility for content in a different place, but clearly a reasonable line can be drawn that allows Safari but doesn't allow Tumblr (with a broken child-porn filter).
- alphabettsy 8y ago
  Safari has a site filter, Tumblr doesn’t. How effective filters are is another question, but Apple has long stated rules that apps must not provide access to “objectionable” content without some kind of access control which doesn’t seem to meaningfully exist on Tumblr.
  - devwastaken 8y ago
    Tumblr has NSFW filtering. You have to be logged in to see nafw tumblrs, and have it active on your settings, iirc.
    - alphabettsy 8y ago
      I’m aware, I use it regularly. I’m also saying it doesn’t work.
- briandear 8y ago
  Safari doesn’t host content.
burger_moon 8y ago
You can look at backpage as a very similar example, and in fact if Tumblr does have child pornography on it and they are not actively taking it down and taking measures to prevent it and report it then it should be shut down just as backpage was.
- nailer 8y ago
  Tumblr is to child porn what LiveJournal was - the site's admins made a very deliberate choice in what they filter and don't filter (courting a user base that likes pornographic depictions of characters that appear to be children) and it's not surprising to see a reaction from more mainstream folk.
- watwut 8y ago
  Wasn't backpage overwhelmingly predominately adult site?
  - olivermarks 8y ago
    Craigslist stopped adult ads after FOSTA passed https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/craigslist-removes-personal-ads-after-sex-trafficking-act-passes-204835/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/craigslist... But BackPage, which was essentially a CL clone, carried on until the owners were arrested https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investigations/2018/08/25/backpage-founders-prostitution-charges-settling-scores-michael-lacey-james-larkin/1097236002/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investiga...
    - watwut 8y ago
      I am not sure whether it is yes or no. I remember consensual adult sex workers complaining their job got more dangerous after backpage was killed. (It allowed them better check of customers, after they went by whoever said yes on truck stop - more danger) Don't know much more.
devwastaken 8y ago
From article: "In its updated statement, Tumblr said that while every image uploaded to the platform is “scanned against an industry database of child sexual abuse material” to filter out explicit images, a “routine audit” discovered content that was absent from the database" Same thing as removing Twitter because a non filtered post showed up in someone's feed.
- developer2 8y ago
  So basically, the same problem rooted in management at most tech-heavy companies: Tumblr likely focuses every single dollar spent on development towards pumping out useless new features in under half the time those features would require to finish properly, sacrificing quality over quantity – every damn time. Some developer at Tumblr is now grumbling, "I fucking told you we needed to spend more time on the filter system, and that it wouldn't work properly when you forced me to ship it to prod after only 3 weeks instead of the 6 weeks I told you it would take". Someone there knows that the cron/API that updates that database is non-functional or untested, but nobody higher up the chain of command gives a shit. Source: have dealt with this kind of management time and time again. In particular, "Agile" development has destroyed this industry. You tell management the task will take 6 weeks, so they assign 3 weeks to the ticket in Jira, and suddenly that means the feature has been promised as being deliverable in 3 weeks. If not, it's somehow your fault for not meeting deliverables.
  - devwastaken 8y ago
    There is no filter system in the world that will catch all cp. It doesn't exist because current systems rely upon known content. It's image recognition, and image recognition can be bypassed. Either by an image not in the database, or by modifying one that is.
paxy 8y ago
Every website works off the same technology and database to detect child pornography (PhotoDNA). If it slipped though Tumblr, it would on any other site or app as well (including Apple's).
- Angostura 8y ago
  Most websites also have efficient reporting takedown procedures. Seems Tumblr's are a bit ropey.
- eridius 8y ago
  The claimed issue was that the database was missing material. This could be as simple as Tumblr stopped updating their database and didn't notice, and so newer images weren't caught.

by jmull 8y ago

wlesieutre 8y ago

Safari to be removed from iOS 13 due to child pornography issues because some websites don’t have a filter

bitwize 8y ago
Apple apps automatically get an exemption from all App Store rules.
jmull 8y ago
I think the guideline applies to apps with user-generated content. Now, I'm sure you can come up with an argument about why this still applies to Safari... but it's also easy to come up with an argument about why it does not. Certainly, the relationship between the content and the app is much more tenuous for Safari -- where the content is everything published on the web by anyone -- and the Tumblr app, where the objectionable content is hosted by and for the Tumblr app. In the end, you can argue Apple should have drawn the line about responsibility for content in a different place, but clearly a reasonable line can be drawn that allows Safari but doesn't allow Tumblr (with a broken child-porn filter).
alphabettsy 8y ago
Safari has a site filter, Tumblr doesn’t. How effective filters are is another question, but Apple has long stated rules that apps must not provide access to “objectionable” content without some kind of access control which doesn’t seem to meaningfully exist on Tumblr.
- devwastaken 8y ago
  Tumblr has NSFW filtering. You have to be logged in to see nafw tumblrs, and have it active on your settings, iirc.
  - alphabettsy 8y ago
    I’m aware, I use it regularly. I’m also saying it doesn’t work.
briandear 8y ago
Safari doesn’t host content.

burger_moon 8y ago

You can look at backpage as a very similar example, and in fact if Tumblr does have child pornography on it and they are not actively taking it down and taking measures to prevent it and report it then it should be shut down just as backpage was.

nailer 8y ago
Tumblr is to child porn what LiveJournal was - the site's admins made a very deliberate choice in what they filter and don't filter (courting a user base that likes pornographic depictions of characters that appear to be children) and it's not surprising to see a reaction from more mainstream folk.
watwut 8y ago
Wasn't backpage overwhelmingly predominately adult site?
- olivermarks 8y ago
  Craigslist stopped adult ads after FOSTA passed https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/craigslist-removes-personal-ads-after-sex-trafficking-act-passes-204835/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/craigslist... But BackPage, which was essentially a CL clone, carried on until the owners were arrested https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investigations/2018/08/25/backpage-founders-prostitution-charges-settling-scores-michael-lacey-james-larkin/1097236002/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investiga...
  - watwut 8y ago
    I am not sure whether it is yes or no. I remember consensual adult sex workers complaining their job got more dangerous after backpage was killed. (It allowed them better check of customers, after they went by whoever said yes on truck stop - more danger) Don't know much more.

devwastaken 8y ago

From article: "In its updated statement, Tumblr said that while every image uploaded to the platform is “scanned against an industry database of child sexual abuse material” to filter out explicit images, a “routine audit” discovered content that was absent from the database" Same thing as removing Twitter because a non filtered post showed up in someone's feed.

developer2 8y ago
So basically, the same problem rooted in management at most tech-heavy companies: Tumblr likely focuses every single dollar spent on development towards pumping out useless new features in under half the time those features would require to finish properly, sacrificing quality over quantity – every damn time. Some developer at Tumblr is now grumbling, "I fucking told you we needed to spend more time on the filter system, and that it wouldn't work properly when you forced me to ship it to prod after only 3 weeks instead of the 6 weeks I told you it would take". Someone there knows that the cron/API that updates that database is non-functional or untested, but nobody higher up the chain of command gives a shit. Source: have dealt with this kind of management time and time again. In particular, "Agile" development has destroyed this industry. You tell management the task will take 6 weeks, so they assign 3 weeks to the ticket in Jira, and suddenly that means the feature has been promised as being deliverable in 3 weeks. If not, it's somehow your fault for not meeting deliverables.
- devwastaken 8y ago
  There is no filter system in the world that will catch all cp. It doesn't exist because current systems rely upon known content. It's image recognition, and image recognition can be bypassed. Either by an image not in the database, or by modifying one that is.

paxy 8y ago

Every website works off the same technology and database to detect child pornography (PhotoDNA). If it slipped though Tumblr, it would on any other site or app as well (including Apple's).

Angostura 8y ago
Most websites also have efficient reporting takedown procedures. Seems Tumblr's are a bit ropey.
eridius 8y ago
The claimed issue was that the database was missing material. This could be as simple as Tumblr stopped updating their database and didn't notice, and so newer images weren't caught.