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If this is true, will there have been any major rise of Bitcoin that hasn't been caused by illegal & unethical manipulation? Serious question.

bdcravens 8y ago
Do you think a market that is easily manipulated would ever not be?
- coding123 8y ago
  I'm almost certain it is being manipulated, so glad an actual investigation is happening. Many people have been duped into crypto.
  - gibsons77 8y ago
    Duped? I use gitcoin now to build software projects. Is that use case a figment of my imagination? And nice concern troll. I think there are two types of people in crypto. Some like me, who are building things and see the huge potential in decentralized infrastructure, and then speculators that will dump money into anything as long as they see a positive return. Do you really feel that bad for the speculators? No ones forcing them to invest in shitty ICO's with tons of red flags.
  - bdcravens 8y ago
    I think crypto is very manipulated, but people aren't being duped because of that manipulation. (aside from a few situations like Paycoin where the "founder" Josh Garza promised a price floor; he has been since prosecuted) Losses in cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and ICOs are the result of individuals hyping each other up and smoking hopium. Opportunities have to at least pass a smell test before you can claim you've been "duped".
lowdest 8y ago
Yes, the underlying idea has always been sound enough to attract large investment without manipulation. Even if the legal and ethical true price is under $1000, that's still more natural growth than, say, an additional 20x added on by manipulation.
Obi_Juan_Kenobi 8y ago
There's no compelling reason to conclude that any of the bubbles have been caused by fraud. I certainly agree that it's possible, perhaps probable, but Gox/Willy and Tether are mostly compelling narratives; when you dig down into the specifics, it's hard to connect them to price action. These stories fit peoples' expectations for fraud in Bitcoin, they lust for scams and intrigue. The null hypotheses is boring but also quite plausible: bitcoin sees bubbles because price has been steadily rising and this eventually triggers positive-feedback cycles that cause the boom and bust. The insensitivity of Bitcoin price to news/events supports this hypothesis: price is the news. The fraud narratives are more tea-leaf reading than actual analysis. Just dive into the Willy bot oeuvre if you'd like a sense of that.

bdcravens 8y ago

Do you think a market that is easily manipulated would ever not be?

coding123 8y ago
I'm almost certain it is being manipulated, so glad an actual investigation is happening. Many people have been duped into crypto.
- gibsons77 8y ago
  Duped? I use gitcoin now to build software projects. Is that use case a figment of my imagination? And nice concern troll. I think there are two types of people in crypto. Some like me, who are building things and see the huge potential in decentralized infrastructure, and then speculators that will dump money into anything as long as they see a positive return. Do you really feel that bad for the speculators? No ones forcing them to invest in shitty ICO's with tons of red flags.
- bdcravens 8y ago
  I think crypto is very manipulated, but people aren't being duped because of that manipulation. (aside from a few situations like Paycoin where the "founder" Josh Garza promised a price floor; he has been since prosecuted) Losses in cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and ICOs are the result of individuals hyping each other up and smoking hopium. Opportunities have to at least pass a smell test before you can claim you've been "duped".

lowdest 8y ago

Yes, the underlying idea has always been sound enough to attract large investment without manipulation. Even if the legal and ethical true price is under $1000, that's still more natural growth than, say, an additional 20x added on by manipulation.

Obi_Juan_Kenobi 8y ago

There's no compelling reason to conclude that any of the bubbles have been caused by fraud. I certainly agree that it's possible, perhaps probable, but Gox/Willy and Tether are mostly compelling narratives; when you dig down into the specifics, it's hard to connect them to price action. These stories fit peoples' expectations for fraud in Bitcoin, they lust for scams and intrigue. The null hypotheses is boring but also quite plausible: bitcoin sees bubbles because price has been steadily rising and this eventually triggers positive-feedback cycles that cause the boom and bust. The insensitivity of Bitcoin price to news/events supports this hypothesis: price is the news. The fraud narratives are more tea-leaf reading than actual analysis. Just dive into the Willy bot oeuvre if you'd like a sense of that.