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93% of plastic polluting the world's oceans comes from 10 rivers. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plastic-tide-10-rivers-contribute-mos

93% of plastic polluting the world's oceans comes from 10 rivers. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plastic-tide-10-rivers-contribute-most-of-the-plastic-in-the-oceans/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plas... Yangtze - East China Sea (Asia) Indus - Arabian Sea (Asia) Yellow River - Yellow Sea (Asia) Hai He - Yellow Sea (Asia) Nile - Mediterranean (Africa) Ganges - Bay of Bengal (Asia) Pearl River - South China Sea (Asia) Amur - Sea of Okhotsk (Asia) Niger - Gulf of Guinea (Africa) Mekong - South China Sea (Asia)

ninkendo 8y ago
How much of that plastic is shipped there "for recycling" by other countries? Everything I've read on the subject seems to indicate we send tons of plastic to places that we know aren't really going to recycle it.
- carapace 8y ago
  It's shipped there because it's bought. It's bought because the buyer intends to make money off of it, not throw it in a river. Although a lot of crap does wind up in the air and water, the environmental havoc wreaked by thousands of backyard plastic smelters is incredible. "Junkyard Planet: Travels in the Billion-Dollar Trash Trade" by Adam Minter https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17286721-junkyard-planet https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17286721-junkyard-planet
  - isostatic 8y ago
    Many recyclers are paid to take rubbish (especially unsorted rubbish). They claim they sort it and responsibly recycle or dispose. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/20/plastic-recycling-industrys-problems-costing-councils-up-to-500000-a-year https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/20/plastic-...
admn2 8y ago
Feels like such a helpless situation. Is there anything to be done in the US to help with these rivers?
- ajmurmann 8y ago
  Polluting the planet for everyone should be the main reason for punitive international measures (sanctions, etc)
  - baobrain 8y ago
    Perhaps a different way of viewing it is developing countries' polluting enables the high living standards in the developed world. Who is then responsible?
    - briandear 8y ago
      Is that a fact though? If that were the case, Mexico, the US's third-largest trading partner and by most measures, a "developing" county, should be vastly more polluted than India, which is the US's 9th-largest trading partner. The top-ten polluted cities are in India and Pakistan. China doesn't even make the top 20.[1] Is Pakistan materially contributing to the high living standards of developed countries? It would be a stretch to suggest that. However, the high standards of living the developed world are absolutely contributing to rising standards of living in the developing world. If it weren't for trade, South Koreans, for example would still be living in mud-brick houses with sewage dumped in the rivers. The HangGang would resemble the Ganges. The idea that high living standards elsewhere degrade living standards in developing countries is not supported by evidence. Pollution rates tend to decline with the rising of an economy, which would suggest that increasing world trade would ultimately result in less pollution as countries become more developed. So by not "supporting" the high standards of living in the developed world, a country themselves wouldn't be able to progress to a developed state. South Korea, achieved their economic successes starting in the late 1970s when they were definitely not a developed country. They sold heavy industrial goods and then ventured into electronics and cars which gave them the economic activity necessary to become one of the most developed countries in the world. The absolute poverty rate in the 1950s was almost 50%. As of 2001, absolute poverty in Korea was less than 2%. It could be argued that without "enabling the high living standards in the developed world," South Korea would still be dumping raw sewage into rivers. [1] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/which-is-the-worlds-most-polluted-city/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/which-is-the-worlds-m...
MichaelApproved 8y ago
82% of people who quote statistics get them wrong. From your article: > A recent study estimates that more than a quarter of all that waste could be pouring in from just 10 rivers, eight of them in Asia. The 93% stat relates to just rivers as a source of plastic pollution. > rivers collectively dump anywhere from 0.47 million to 2.75 million metric tons of plastic into the seas every year, depending on the data used in the models. The 10 rivers that carry 93 percent of that trash are the Yangtze, Yellow, Hai, Pearl, Amur, Mekong, Indus and Ganges Delta in Asia, and the Niger and Nile in Africa. Still bad but much less than the original stat.
- nostromo 8y ago
  You’re right about that article — however when looking at all marine plastic pollution, the countries responsible are the same: most notably China and South East Asia. https://www.wsj.com/articles/which-countries-create-the-most-ocean-trash-1423767676 https://www.wsj.com/articles/which-countries-create-the-most... https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting-the-oceans-the-most/ https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting...
  - glaberficken 8y ago
    Claiming that China and South East Asia are "responsible" for all the plastic pollution they output is seriously misguided (no offense intended=) given that the region is "the plastic factory" for the whole world.
    - erikpukinskis 8y ago
      Is the plastic in the rivers postconsumer or preconsumer waste?
  - ericdykstra 8y ago
    Thanks for posting these. I got the original information from another article, but it was full of ads so I chose a better source to link, which is where the discrepancy comes in.
mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
So, can we filter at a point before they spread into their deltas? I’m guessing this is an incredibly complex task.
im_down_w_otp 8y ago
That's nuts. Also, that seems ripe for a meaningful stop gap solution which addresses at least part of the problem through collectors at the river deltas.
rerx 8y ago
> 93% of plastic polluting the world's oceans comes from 10 rivers. This statements contradicts your article, which states: "A recent study estimates that more than a quarter of all that waste could be pouring in from just 10 rivers, eight of them in Asia." Your 10 listed rivers contribute 93% of the plastic waste brought into the ocean _by rivers_. Also see this breakdown by country: https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting-the-oceans-the-most/ https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting... Indonesia, the Philippines, and Vietnam each bring more marine plastic waste into the ocean than Egypt, but there is not a single river carrying it like the Nile.
gedy 8y ago
This elicits an emotional response from my acquaintances, but this gets to the main objection I have about feel-good measures like banning plastic straws. I understand the "everything helps" argument, but not when people and the media pour their energy and emotions into statistically meaningless measures then move on. I've been hearing the same concerns my entire life, yet things keep getting worse in statistically meaningful ways.
- sdenton4 8y ago
  It's almost like all of the responsibility is out on individuals, while large industrial interests are exempt from consideration. Strange how that happened...
- erikpukinskis 8y ago
  I call it do-your-partism and it’s a big part of the reason we have so many problems that people seem to care about that aren’t getting solved.
mbrumlow 8y ago
Very courous. I would wager had you posted that %95 of the plastic waste was found to come from the Mississippi not a single reply would have defended / or taken issue / found exsxuses with your post. In fact it would have just more bashing the west for polloting oceans.

ninkendo 8y ago

How much of that plastic is shipped there "for recycling" by other countries? Everything I've read on the subject seems to indicate we send tons of plastic to places that we know aren't really going to recycle it.

carapace 8y ago
It's shipped there because it's bought. It's bought because the buyer intends to make money off of it, not throw it in a river. Although a lot of crap does wind up in the air and water, the environmental havoc wreaked by thousands of backyard plastic smelters is incredible. "Junkyard Planet: Travels in the Billion-Dollar Trash Trade" by Adam Minter https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17286721-junkyard-planet https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17286721-junkyard-planet
- isostatic 8y ago
  Many recyclers are paid to take rubbish (especially unsorted rubbish). They claim they sort it and responsibly recycle or dispose. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/20/plastic-recycling-industrys-problems-costing-councils-up-to-500000-a-year https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/20/plastic-...

admn2 8y ago

Feels like such a helpless situation. Is there anything to be done in the US to help with these rivers?

ajmurmann 8y ago
Polluting the planet for everyone should be the main reason for punitive international measures (sanctions, etc)
- baobrain 8y ago
  Perhaps a different way of viewing it is developing countries' polluting enables the high living standards in the developed world. Who is then responsible?
  - briandear 8y ago
    Is that a fact though? If that were the case, Mexico, the US's third-largest trading partner and by most measures, a "developing" county, should be vastly more polluted than India, which is the US's 9th-largest trading partner. The top-ten polluted cities are in India and Pakistan. China doesn't even make the top 20.[1] Is Pakistan materially contributing to the high living standards of developed countries? It would be a stretch to suggest that. However, the high standards of living the developed world are absolutely contributing to rising standards of living in the developing world. If it weren't for trade, South Koreans, for example would still be living in mud-brick houses with sewage dumped in the rivers. The HangGang would resemble the Ganges. The idea that high living standards elsewhere degrade living standards in developing countries is not supported by evidence. Pollution rates tend to decline with the rising of an economy, which would suggest that increasing world trade would ultimately result in less pollution as countries become more developed. So by not "supporting" the high standards of living in the developed world, a country themselves wouldn't be able to progress to a developed state. South Korea, achieved their economic successes starting in the late 1970s when they were definitely not a developed country. They sold heavy industrial goods and then ventured into electronics and cars which gave them the economic activity necessary to become one of the most developed countries in the world. The absolute poverty rate in the 1950s was almost 50%. As of 2001, absolute poverty in Korea was less than 2%. It could be argued that without "enabling the high living standards in the developed world," South Korea would still be dumping raw sewage into rivers. [1] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/which-is-the-worlds-most-polluted-city/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/which-is-the-worlds-m...

MichaelApproved 8y ago

82% of people who quote statistics get them wrong. From your article: > A recent study estimates that more than a quarter of all that waste could be pouring in from just 10 rivers, eight of them in Asia. The 93% stat relates to just rivers as a source of plastic pollution. > rivers collectively dump anywhere from 0.47 million to 2.75 million metric tons of plastic into the seas every year, depending on the data used in the models. The 10 rivers that carry 93 percent of that trash are the Yangtze, Yellow, Hai, Pearl, Amur, Mekong, Indus and Ganges Delta in Asia, and the Niger and Nile in Africa. Still bad but much less than the original stat.

nostromo 8y ago
You’re right about that article — however when looking at all marine plastic pollution, the countries responsible are the same: most notably China and South East Asia. https://www.wsj.com/articles/which-countries-create-the-most-ocean-trash-1423767676 https://www.wsj.com/articles/which-countries-create-the-most... https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting-the-oceans-the-most/ https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting...
- glaberficken 8y ago
  Claiming that China and South East Asia are "responsible" for all the plastic pollution they output is seriously misguided (no offense intended=) given that the region is "the plastic factory" for the whole world.
  - erikpukinskis 8y ago
    Is the plastic in the rivers postconsumer or preconsumer waste?
- ericdykstra 8y ago
  Thanks for posting these. I got the original information from another article, but it was full of ads so I chose a better source to link, which is where the discrepancy comes in.

mrhappyunhappy 8y ago

So, can we filter at a point before they spread into their deltas? I’m guessing this is an incredibly complex task.

im_down_w_otp 8y ago

That's nuts. Also, that seems ripe for a meaningful stop gap solution which addresses at least part of the problem through collectors at the river deltas.

rerx 8y ago

> 93% of plastic polluting the world's oceans comes from 10 rivers. This statements contradicts your article, which states: "A recent study estimates that more than a quarter of all that waste could be pouring in from just 10 rivers, eight of them in Asia." Your 10 listed rivers contribute 93% of the plastic waste brought into the ocean _by rivers_. Also see this breakdown by country: https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting-the-oceans-the-most/ https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting... Indonesia, the Philippines, and Vietnam each bring more marine plastic waste into the ocean than Egypt, but there is not a single river carrying it like the Nile.

gedy 8y ago

This elicits an emotional response from my acquaintances, but this gets to the main objection I have about feel-good measures like banning plastic straws. I understand the "everything helps" argument, but not when people and the media pour their energy and emotions into statistically meaningless measures then move on. I've been hearing the same concerns my entire life, yet things keep getting worse in statistically meaningful ways.

sdenton4 8y ago
It's almost like all of the responsibility is out on individuals, while large industrial interests are exempt from consideration. Strange how that happened...
erikpukinskis 8y ago
I call it do-your-partism and it’s a big part of the reason we have so many problems that people seem to care about that aren’t getting solved.

mbrumlow 8y ago

Very courous. I would wager had you posted that %95 of the plastic waste was found to come from the Mississippi not a single reply would have defended / or taken issue / found exsxuses with your post. In fact it would have just more bashing the west for polloting oceans.