6 ms·

AML is bad because it makes a crime out of something which isn’t actually bad. Yes, criminals are bad people who do bad things and they should be caught & puni

by zeveb 8y ago

AML is bad because it makes a crime out of something which isn’t actually bad. Yes, criminals are bad people who do bad things and they should be caught & punished. But KYC/AML are about making it easier to find criminals by their behaviour, not about crime directly. They violate the right to privacy, among other things, but most people don't care because — by definition — most people are normal: they don't carry $10,000 across state lines; they don't pay cash for everything; they have state-issued identification. They don't care if abnormal people who aren't criminals are inconvenience or oppressed by KYC/AML laws.

Nursie 8y ago
Such 'abnormal' people can usually work within the law too, by declaring currency etc. AML is good because it makes it much more difficult for the proceeds of criminal activity to be blended in to the legitimate economy.
CaptainZapp 8y ago
Can you provide me with just one example why money laundring is supposed to be a good thing? And can you explain how the average person is inconvenienced in any way, shape or form by AML / KYC regulations? Sorry, but your argument, so far, is just libertarian drivel.
- zeveb 8y ago
  > Can you provide me with just one example why money laundring is supposed to be a good thing? Money laundering isn't good; the actions which are termed 'money laundering' in the law are neutral. > And can you explain how the average person is inconvenienced in any way, shape or form by AML / KYC regulations? https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/09/01/police-seized-couples-cash-they-couldnt-get-it-back-until-they-went-public/?utm_term=.803951aaadac https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/09/01/police-seiz... https://www.thestreet.com/story/12793654/1/file-10000-irs-form-prevent-asset-seizure.html https://www.thestreet.com/story/12793654/1/file-10000-irs-fo... https://ij.org/michigan-man-cleared-wrongdoing-still-fighting-civil-forfeiture-years-later/ https://ij.org/michigan-man-cleared-wrongdoing-still-fightin... https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-customs-agents-cash-forfeiture-20180531-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-customs-a... https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2018/05/15/customs-agents-seize-cash-nurse-had-saved-to-build-medical-clinic-never-charged-her-with-a-crime/#f2f59957bc95 https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2018/05/15/... And on, and on, and on. It's a real problem.
  - CaptainZapp 8y ago
    Money laundering isn't good; Just a second, in your original post you say: AML is bad because it makes a crime out of something which isn’t actually bad. So which is it? You can't have it both ways.
    - zeveb 8y ago
      You conveniently left out the second clause of the sentence: it’s not good; it’s neutral. There are three moral valences: good, neutral & evil. ‘Money laundering’ is neither good nor evil, but simply neutral. The things it attempts to hide may be evil, but it itself has no moral value. That is my whole point: criminalising it makes a crime out of something which is neither good nor evil.

by zeveb 8y ago

Nursie 8y ago

Such 'abnormal' people can usually work within the law too, by declaring currency etc. AML is good because it makes it much more difficult for the proceeds of criminal activity to be blended in to the legitimate economy.

CaptainZapp 8y ago

Can you provide me with just one example why money laundring is supposed to be a good thing? And can you explain how the average person is inconvenienced in any way, shape or form by AML / KYC regulations? Sorry, but your argument, so far, is just libertarian drivel.

zeveb 8y ago
> Can you provide me with just one example why money laundring is supposed to be a good thing? Money laundering isn't good; the actions which are termed 'money laundering' in the law are neutral. > And can you explain how the average person is inconvenienced in any way, shape or form by AML / KYC regulations? https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/09/01/police-seized-couples-cash-they-couldnt-get-it-back-until-they-went-public/?utm_term=.803951aaadac https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/09/01/police-seiz... https://www.thestreet.com/story/12793654/1/file-10000-irs-form-prevent-asset-seizure.html https://www.thestreet.com/story/12793654/1/file-10000-irs-fo... https://ij.org/michigan-man-cleared-wrongdoing-still-fighting-civil-forfeiture-years-later/ https://ij.org/michigan-man-cleared-wrongdoing-still-fightin... https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-customs-agents-cash-forfeiture-20180531-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-customs-a... https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2018/05/15/customs-agents-seize-cash-nurse-had-saved-to-build-medical-clinic-never-charged-her-with-a-crime/#f2f59957bc95 https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2018/05/15/... And on, and on, and on. It's a real problem.
- CaptainZapp 8y ago
  Money laundering isn't good; Just a second, in your original post you say: AML is bad because it makes a crime out of something which isn’t actually bad. So which is it? You can't have it both ways.
  - zeveb 8y ago
    You conveniently left out the second clause of the sentence: it’s not good; it’s neutral. There are three moral valences: good, neutral & evil. ‘Money laundering’ is neither good nor evil, but simply neutral. The things it attempts to hide may be evil, but it itself has no moral value. That is my whole point: criminalising it makes a crime out of something which is neither good nor evil.