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This is an absurd argument. Software (and written work) is not generated by random number generators...even though it theoretically could be. If you can random

This is an absurd argument. Software (and written work) is not generated by random number generators...even though it theoretically could be. If you can randomly generate works that have market value (copyright is intended to encourage creation of works with value, not merely a sequence of random words or bits), then we can talk about whether they're individually copyrightable (maybe the generator itself is the only copyrightable work in the picture, I dunno). But, no one is going to take an argument seriously that because the number 1 (or the letter "a") cannot be copyrighted then no sequence of numbers or letters can be copyrighted.

nprateem 8y ago
I can generate works with market value. In pseudocode: i=0 while { write_to_file("%s.bin" % i, i) i++ } Of course the effort is in discarding the dross. How are we to determine "market value"? And let's not forget, the copyright crowd don't want to claim rights over just 1 specific number, but any number that happens to render (when run through a movie player) anything that resembles e.g. Star Wars. I don't think this argument is as absurd as it first appears...
- SwellJoe 8y ago
  "And let's not forget, the copyright crowd don't want to claim rights over just 1 specific number, but any number that happens to render (when run through a movie player) anything that resembles e.g. Star Wars. I don't think this argument is as absurd as it first appears..." It makes it more absurd, as it indicates clearly that it's not a random sequence of numbers that is being protected by copyright, but a specific, recognizable, creative work. If I watch an mpeg of Star Wars and then watch a laser disc version of Star Wars, I will recognize them as the same work (well, ignoring Lucas' retconning nonsense and CGI shitshow). Most humans would, including most judges and juries in a copyright case. "The copyright crowd" includes the leadership (and presumably the populace) of nearly every developed nation on earth, so you're arguing against a pretty solid majority (which is fine, I have some unpopular ideas that I hold pretty strongly...the majority seems to love and support war and killing more than I ever will). Anyway, I'm all for reasonable copyright terms (and the US has absurd and abusive copyright law that punishes and inhibits new creators at the behest of old corporations and billionaires), but it's just not a sound basis to argue that because one can randomly generate any creative work given infinite monkeys and infinite time that no creative work should be able to be copyrighted. It says that there is no difference between a creative work, like Star Wars, and a random series of bits, because Star Wars can be recorded as a (non-random) series of bits.

nprateem 8y ago

I can generate works with market value. In pseudocode: i=0 while { write_to_file("%s.bin" % i, i) i++ } Of course the effort is in discarding the dross. How are we to determine "market value"? And let's not forget, the copyright crowd don't want to claim rights over just 1 specific number, but any number that happens to render (when run through a movie player) anything that resembles e.g. Star Wars. I don't think this argument is as absurd as it first appears...

SwellJoe 8y ago
"And let's not forget, the copyright crowd don't want to claim rights over just 1 specific number, but any number that happens to render (when run through a movie player) anything that resembles e.g. Star Wars. I don't think this argument is as absurd as it first appears..." It makes it more absurd, as it indicates clearly that it's not a random sequence of numbers that is being protected by copyright, but a specific, recognizable, creative work. If I watch an mpeg of Star Wars and then watch a laser disc version of Star Wars, I will recognize them as the same work (well, ignoring Lucas' retconning nonsense and CGI shitshow). Most humans would, including most judges and juries in a copyright case. "The copyright crowd" includes the leadership (and presumably the populace) of nearly every developed nation on earth, so you're arguing against a pretty solid majority (which is fine, I have some unpopular ideas that I hold pretty strongly...the majority seems to love and support war and killing more than I ever will). Anyway, I'm all for reasonable copyright terms (and the US has absurd and abusive copyright law that punishes and inhibits new creators at the behest of old corporations and billionaires), but it's just not a sound basis to argue that because one can randomly generate any creative work given infinite monkeys and infinite time that no creative work should be able to be copyrighted. It says that there is no difference between a creative work, like Star Wars, and a random series of bits, because Star Wars can be recorded as a (non-random) series of bits.