4 ms·

Agreed, sites like this only perpetuate the nonsense. The only way to win is not to play.

by gaius 8y ago

collyw 8y ago
Agreed, I have refused a few places. Skyscanner keeps on contacting me. Their choice was a "full stack test" entirely in JavaScript, or a Systems engineer test in HackerRank. I wasn't wasting my time with either of those. Its amazing how many people phone me "for a chat" after seeing my Linkedin profile then expect me to jump in to do their coding test. You have to convince me that I actually want to work for you first. If I haven't spoken with anyone technical about the job then its a definite no.
- arethuza 8y ago
  I must admit that I wonder if part of the success of these types of tests is that they are bullshit and what is actually being tested is how compliant you are as an individual and not really anything to do with technical competence.
  - gaius 8y ago
    Compliant, with lots of “free” time...
  - 13of40 8y ago
    Not to say asking puzzle coding questions is an ideal approach, but I think the motivation is somewhat opposite: If you base your hiring decision on how awesome the applicant tells you they are, a certain number of the people you say "hire" for are going to be bullshit artists who can't code. When the interview is over, the interviewer is judged either explicitly or implicitly on how well they conducted the interview, and there's probably nothing worse they could do than say "hire" to someone and have the next interviewer find out they're lacking basic coding skills. So they have to ask some kind of coding question, and it has to be something with some meat to it, but you probably can't make it too OS or framework specific, so you're left asking about overlapping rectangles.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - collyw 8y ago
      Why not just ask applicants to bring in some code they have written to discuss? If they have written it they should be able to discuss it and answer questions easily. If someone else wrote it and they have understood it enough to discuss it, you probably have an even better developer, especially if the job involves working with some legacy code.
      - wgerard 8y ago
        > Why not just ask applicants to bring in some code they have written to discuss? That can be really difficult for a lot of candidates. It's predicated on the idea that they've written code they: a) Feel comfortable sharing (not just a one-off weekend hack project) b) Are allowed to share, legally. This is usually the real problem for most developers. The truth about hiring: There really isn't any one-size-fits-all that works for everyone. Any hiring process you come up with is going to be an incredible obstacle for a sizable minority of people.
        arethuza 8y ago
        But why the fixation on algorithmic trivia questions - why not at least come up with examples that are relevant to the role?
        wgerard 8y ago
        I mean, I agree with you. Honestly? Because companies view those kinds of questions as proxies for IQ tests (which are mostly illegal to use as a hiring method). Notice the defense of them largely revolves around "seeing how you solve a problem" and "how you communicate your problem-solving ability". They're seen as measures of your intelligence, which is what they're actually interested in--not your experience or expertise (outside of specific areas). Those interviews are, of course, something you can easily (with a serious time commitment, but fairly easily nonetheless) prepare for and game, which of course makes them bad proxies for intelligence. And of course, I don't think algorithm questions necessarily measure someone's actual intelligence at all. And of course, it's unclear how highly intelligence is correlated with your ability to succeed as a software engineer. But that's why. I have little doubt that they would actually try IQ tests if they thought they could get away with it. I'm fairly certain at least one major company tried asking candidates for SAT scores.

Agreed, sites like this only perpetuate the nonsense. The only way to win is not to play.

by gaius 8y ago

Agreed, sites like this only perpetuate the nonsense. The only way to win is not to play.

Agreed, I have refused a few places. Skyscanner keeps on contacting me. Their choice was a "full stack test" entirely in JavaScript, or a Systems engineer test in HackerRank. I wasn't wasting my time with either of those. Its amazing how many people phone me "for a chat" after seeing my Linkedin profile then expect me to jump in to do their coding test. You have to convince me that I actually want to work for you first. If I haven't spoken with anyone technical about the job then its a definite no.

arethuza 8y ago
I must admit that I wonder if part of the success of these types of tests is that they are bullshit and what is actually being tested is how compliant you are as an individual and not really anything to do with technical competence.
- gaius 8y ago
  Compliant, with lots of “free” time...
- 13of40 8y ago
  Not to say asking puzzle coding questions is an ideal approach, but I think the motivation is somewhat opposite: If you base your hiring decision on how awesome the applicant tells you they are, a certain number of the people you say "hire" for are going to be bullshit artists who can't code. When the interview is over, the interviewer is judged either explicitly or implicitly on how well they conducted the interview, and there's probably nothing worse they could do than say "hire" to someone and have the next interviewer find out they're lacking basic coding skills. So they have to ask some kind of coding question, and it has to be something with some meat to it, but you probably can't make it too OS or framework specific, so you're left asking about overlapping rectangles.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - collyw 8y ago
    Why not just ask applicants to bring in some code they have written to discuss? If they have written it they should be able to discuss it and answer questions easily. If someone else wrote it and they have understood it enough to discuss it, you probably have an even better developer, especially if the job involves working with some legacy code.
    - wgerard 8y ago
      > Why not just ask applicants to bring in some code they have written to discuss? That can be really difficult for a lot of candidates. It's predicated on the idea that they've written code they: a) Feel comfortable sharing (not just a one-off weekend hack project) b) Are allowed to share, legally. This is usually the real problem for most developers. The truth about hiring: There really isn't any one-size-fits-all that works for everyone. Any hiring process you come up with is going to be an incredible obstacle for a sizable minority of people.
      - arethuza 8y ago
        But why the fixation on algorithmic trivia questions - why not at least come up with examples that are relevant to the role?
        wgerard 8y ago
        I mean, I agree with you. Honestly? Because companies view those kinds of questions as proxies for IQ tests (which are mostly illegal to use as a hiring method). Notice the defense of them largely revolves around "seeing how you solve a problem" and "how you communicate your problem-solving ability". They're seen as measures of your intelligence, which is what they're actually interested in--not your experience or expertise (outside of specific areas). Those interviews are, of course, something you can easily (with a serious time commitment, but fairly easily nonetheless) prepare for and game, which of course makes them bad proxies for intelligence. And of course, I don't think algorithm questions necessarily measure someone's actual intelligence at all. And of course, it's unclear how highly intelligence is correlated with your ability to succeed as a software engineer. But that's why. I have little doubt that they would actually try IQ tests if they thought they could get away with it. I'm fairly certain at least one major company tried asking candidates for SAT scores.