7 ms·

Feels very weird to me to spend time and energy building tools for a type of interview process that is becoming more and more derided by the community?

rhc2104 8y ago
I created SkillUpper because I was thinking about how Computer Science learning could be more interactive. Codecademy pioneered a more interactive REPL style of learning for basic programming. I felt that this interactive step-by-step approach could be used to learn other parts of Computer Science more efficiently. Because of algorithms being highly represented in software engineering interviews, it seemed like a good place to start. But this step-by-step format could also be used to teach other parts of Computer Science.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Have you worked with Project Euler by chance? If not, you might find aspects of it valuable for this project. https://projecteuler.net/ https://projecteuler.net/
- bytematic 8y ago
  Like zybooks?
  - rhc2104 8y ago
    I haven't personally used zyBooks, but they seem to have a similar vision. Although from what I can see on the Internet, reviews of their materials seem to be mixed.
- profalseidol 8y ago
  Any SkillUpper for salary negotiation?
  - diN0bot 8y ago
    My business partner and I are professional negotiators for software engineers. Happy to chat further inquiry@dangoormendel.com
- dorfsmay 8y ago
  Are you aware of https://exercism.io/ https://exercism.io/ (volunteer run)?
wuunderbar 8y ago
Being more derided by the community doesn't mean it isn't worth playing the game for some. I personally loathe these types of interviews and don't administer them myself. Nonetheless, it isn't going away anytime soon and I am willing to practice for it if needed.
wild_preference 8y ago
The only thing that's relevant is if these questions are standing in the way of a job you want. That HNers hate them provides a nice circle-jerk, but doesn't help you get the job.
zaptheimpaler 8y ago
Employers still ask them, so we still gotta answer them. Reality for most devs. Many complain but only a few can realistically opt-out.
- pmontra 8y ago
  They ask those questions when they have to compare many candidates because they can't think of anything automatic that scales. It's the street light effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect
  - pytester 8y ago
    I've found that creating a 1-1.5 hour test that is deliberately designed to be a realistic depiction of the work the candidate will do works and scales just fine. In practice this means creating a small example project with all of the tedious boilerplate ready and in place and asking the candidate to implement 1-3 relevant stories on it. It's not the streetlight effect that got the industry into this sorry state. It's a combination of cargo culting and laziness.
willio58 8y ago
The community isn’t asking the questions, the majority of companies hiring developers right now are. Thoughts on HN != the status quo in companies today.
gaius 8y ago
Agreed, sites like this only perpetuate the nonsense. The only way to win is not to play.
- collyw 8y ago
  Agreed, I have refused a few places. Skyscanner keeps on contacting me. Their choice was a "full stack test" entirely in JavaScript, or a Systems engineer test in HackerRank. I wasn't wasting my time with either of those. Its amazing how many people phone me "for a chat" after seeing my Linkedin profile then expect me to jump in to do their coding test. You have to convince me that I actually want to work for you first. If I haven't spoken with anyone technical about the job then its a definite no.
  - arethuza 8y ago
    I must admit that I wonder if part of the success of these types of tests is that they are bullshit and what is actually being tested is how compliant you are as an individual and not really anything to do with technical competence.
    - gaius 8y ago
      Compliant, with lots of “free” time...
    - 13of40 8y ago
      Not to say asking puzzle coding questions is an ideal approach, but I think the motivation is somewhat opposite: If you base your hiring decision on how awesome the applicant tells you they are, a certain number of the people you say "hire" for are going to be bullshit artists who can't code. When the interview is over, the interviewer is judged either explicitly or implicitly on how well they conducted the interview, and there's probably nothing worse they could do than say "hire" to someone and have the next interviewer find out they're lacking basic coding skills. So they have to ask some kind of coding question, and it has to be something with some meat to it, but you probably can't make it too OS or framework specific, so you're left asking about overlapping rectangles.
Kurtz79 8y ago
If it helps securing a job that you think it will improve your life an career, I would argue that it is time well spent. Unfortunately, the fact that it is generally considered a flawed process by the community, doesn't mean the this kind of interviews are not required or common anymore.

rhc2104 8y ago

I created SkillUpper because I was thinking about how Computer Science learning could be more interactive. Codecademy pioneered a more interactive REPL style of learning for basic programming. I felt that this interactive step-by-step approach could be used to learn other parts of Computer Science more efficiently. Because of algorithms being highly represented in software engineering interviews, it seemed like a good place to start. But this step-by-step format could also be used to teach other parts of Computer Science.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Have you worked with Project Euler by chance? If not, you might find aspects of it valuable for this project. https://projecteuler.net/ https://projecteuler.net/
bytematic 8y ago
Like zybooks?
- rhc2104 8y ago
  I haven't personally used zyBooks, but they seem to have a similar vision. Although from what I can see on the Internet, reviews of their materials seem to be mixed.
profalseidol 8y ago
Any SkillUpper for salary negotiation?
- diN0bot 8y ago
  My business partner and I are professional negotiators for software engineers. Happy to chat further inquiry@dangoormendel.com
dorfsmay 8y ago
Are you aware of https://exercism.io/ https://exercism.io/ (volunteer run)?

wuunderbar 8y ago

Being more derided by the community doesn't mean it isn't worth playing the game for some. I personally loathe these types of interviews and don't administer them myself. Nonetheless, it isn't going away anytime soon and I am willing to practice for it if needed.

wild_preference 8y ago

The only thing that's relevant is if these questions are standing in the way of a job you want. That HNers hate them provides a nice circle-jerk, but doesn't help you get the job.

zaptheimpaler 8y ago

Employers still ask them, so we still gotta answer them. Reality for most devs. Many complain but only a few can realistically opt-out.

pmontra 8y ago
They ask those questions when they have to compare many candidates because they can't think of anything automatic that scales. It's the street light effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect
- pytester 8y ago
  I've found that creating a 1-1.5 hour test that is deliberately designed to be a realistic depiction of the work the candidate will do works and scales just fine. In practice this means creating a small example project with all of the tedious boilerplate ready and in place and asking the candidate to implement 1-3 relevant stories on it. It's not the streetlight effect that got the industry into this sorry state. It's a combination of cargo culting and laziness.

willio58 8y ago

The community isn’t asking the questions, the majority of companies hiring developers right now are. Thoughts on HN != the status quo in companies today.

gaius 8y ago

Agreed, sites like this only perpetuate the nonsense. The only way to win is not to play.

collyw 8y ago
Agreed, I have refused a few places. Skyscanner keeps on contacting me. Their choice was a "full stack test" entirely in JavaScript, or a Systems engineer test in HackerRank. I wasn't wasting my time with either of those. Its amazing how many people phone me "for a chat" after seeing my Linkedin profile then expect me to jump in to do their coding test. You have to convince me that I actually want to work for you first. If I haven't spoken with anyone technical about the job then its a definite no.
- arethuza 8y ago
  I must admit that I wonder if part of the success of these types of tests is that they are bullshit and what is actually being tested is how compliant you are as an individual and not really anything to do with technical competence.
  - gaius 8y ago
    Compliant, with lots of “free” time...
  - 13of40 8y ago
    Not to say asking puzzle coding questions is an ideal approach, but I think the motivation is somewhat opposite: If you base your hiring decision on how awesome the applicant tells you they are, a certain number of the people you say "hire" for are going to be bullshit artists who can't code. When the interview is over, the interviewer is judged either explicitly or implicitly on how well they conducted the interview, and there's probably nothing worse they could do than say "hire" to someone and have the next interviewer find out they're lacking basic coding skills. So they have to ask some kind of coding question, and it has to be something with some meat to it, but you probably can't make it too OS or framework specific, so you're left asking about overlapping rectangles.

Kurtz79 8y ago

If it helps securing a job that you think it will improve your life an career, I would argue that it is time well spent. Unfortunately, the fact that it is generally considered a flawed process by the community, doesn't mean the this kind of interviews are not required or common anymore.