4 ms·

Because of these things: - Apple decides which apps go and which don't. - I have to read a list of rules to know if I can actually sell my application - Appl

by sammcd 16y ago

Because of these things: - Apple decides which apps go and which don't. - I have to read a list of rules to know if I can actually sell my application - Apple takes 30% of my money. - Apple decides what programming language I can use. I thought it was agreed upon that the app store is not overall good for developers.

msbarnett 16y ago
Agreed upon by whom? An App Store isn't that great for developers (in the "developers being free to do whatever they want" sense of "good for developers") when it's the only option available. That is not the case with the Mac App Store. If you don't find any benefits in the tradeoffs that particular option provides, don't pursue it. Write your "own licensing code, host a web payment code, and host autoupdates" like the "good old days", if that's what floats your boat. But it's still better to have another revenue option at your disposal than to not, even if you don't choose to use it.
- scrod 16y ago
  >An App Store isn't that great for developers ... when it's the only option available. That is not the case with the Mac App Store. I keep hearing this, but I've yet to be convinced. Over the last 5-10 years Apple has pushed developers more and more aggressively. They put giant efforts into things like Classic and Rosetta, only to strip them from the OS entirely a few years later. They repeatedly trumpeted the full equivalence of Carbon and Java to Cocoa, and now it's infeasible to use either as the basis for any full-featured application. They developed all kinds of new APIs for QuickTime in 10.5, and then in 10.6 introduced "QuickTime X" as the only 64-bit native solution, effectively deprecating everything else. And most recently there's this unusual attack on the Flash plugin of all things. It's as if they now revel in actively destroying backwards-compatibility. All of these decisions had the effect of reducing Apple's support and maintenance overhead while strengthening their control over the direction of their platform. I would be surprised if Apple's very clearly demonstrated zeal for taking control and eliminating developer options did not extend to the new Mac App store.
  - msbarnett 16y ago
    It seems to me that you've started with a conclusion and found facts that fit your thesis. That's the wrong way to go about reasoning. The known facts about the Mac App Store are that it is only going to be an additional way to obtain software. It doesn't make sense to condemn it as "Bad For Developers" based on groundless speculation and presumed irrationality on Apple's part.
    - scrod 16y ago
      >It seems to me that you've started with a conclusion and found facts that fit your thesis. That's the wrong way to go about reasoning. So let's look at it logically then. In nearly every example I gave, did or did Apple not make a promise to developers which it then broke later, costing those developers time and revenue? And did or did Apple not recently make a promise to developers regarding the availability of an existing, long-standing technological alternative, that being direct downloads of application binaries? Would a reasonable person extrapolate from those past observations that Apple would behave in a similar manner when circumstances similar to those that I mentioned arose? If not, then either you don't believe that people's future actions have anything to do with their past actions, or you disagree with a series of easily verifiable facts.
      - rahoulb 16y ago
        there is a cost to maintaining features - ten years ago making java a first class desktop citizen was a good thing. today circumstances have changed and it's not worth the effort. so you could say that they have broken a promise - but do you expect that promise to be for evermore? or for as long as is reasonable (for some definition of reasonable)? apple has always been that way, making life harder for developers if it suits what they perceive the consumer's needs to be.
  - gabrielroth 16y ago
    > All of these decisions had the effect of reducing Apple's support and maintenance overhead while strengthening their control over the direction of their platform. Yup, plus the effect of improving user experience. The most developer-friendly thing a platform vendor can do is attract users. Apple's done that in spades.

by sammcd 16y ago

msbarnett 16y ago

Agreed upon by whom? An App Store isn't that great for developers (in the "developers being free to do whatever they want" sense of "good for developers") when it's the only option available. That is not the case with the Mac App Store. If you don't find any benefits in the tradeoffs that particular option provides, don't pursue it. Write your "own licensing code, host a web payment code, and host autoupdates" like the "good old days", if that's what floats your boat. But it's still better to have another revenue option at your disposal than to not, even if you don't choose to use it.

scrod 16y ago
>An App Store isn't that great for developers ... when it's the only option available. That is not the case with the Mac App Store. I keep hearing this, but I've yet to be convinced. Over the last 5-10 years Apple has pushed developers more and more aggressively. They put giant efforts into things like Classic and Rosetta, only to strip them from the OS entirely a few years later. They repeatedly trumpeted the full equivalence of Carbon and Java to Cocoa, and now it's infeasible to use either as the basis for any full-featured application. They developed all kinds of new APIs for QuickTime in 10.5, and then in 10.6 introduced "QuickTime X" as the only 64-bit native solution, effectively deprecating everything else. And most recently there's this unusual attack on the Flash plugin of all things. It's as if they now revel in actively destroying backwards-compatibility. All of these decisions had the effect of reducing Apple's support and maintenance overhead while strengthening their control over the direction of their platform. I would be surprised if Apple's very clearly demonstrated zeal for taking control and eliminating developer options did not extend to the new Mac App store.
- msbarnett 16y ago
  It seems to me that you've started with a conclusion and found facts that fit your thesis. That's the wrong way to go about reasoning. The known facts about the Mac App Store are that it is only going to be an additional way to obtain software. It doesn't make sense to condemn it as "Bad For Developers" based on groundless speculation and presumed irrationality on Apple's part.
  - scrod 16y ago
    >It seems to me that you've started with a conclusion and found facts that fit your thesis. That's the wrong way to go about reasoning. So let's look at it logically then. In nearly every example I gave, did or did Apple not make a promise to developers which it then broke later, costing those developers time and revenue? And did or did Apple not recently make a promise to developers regarding the availability of an existing, long-standing technological alternative, that being direct downloads of application binaries? Would a reasonable person extrapolate from those past observations that Apple would behave in a similar manner when circumstances similar to those that I mentioned arose? If not, then either you don't believe that people's future actions have anything to do with their past actions, or you disagree with a series of easily verifiable facts.
    - rahoulb 16y ago
      there is a cost to maintaining features - ten years ago making java a first class desktop citizen was a good thing. today circumstances have changed and it's not worth the effort. so you could say that they have broken a promise - but do you expect that promise to be for evermore? or for as long as is reasonable (for some definition of reasonable)? apple has always been that way, making life harder for developers if it suits what they perceive the consumer's needs to be.
- gabrielroth 16y ago
  > All of these decisions had the effect of reducing Apple's support and maintenance overhead while strengthening their control over the direction of their platform. Yup, plus the effect of improving user experience. The most developer-friendly thing a platform vendor can do is attract users. Apple's done that in spades.