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The most annoying thing about the tech giants that askew remote is that they also choose to locate themselves in the most expensive cities in the country. Here

by Touche 8y ago

The most annoying thing about the tech giants that askew remote is that they also choose to locate themselves in the most expensive cities in the country. Here's a tweet today from the creator of Babel on how he is moving to the east bay because housing is more affordable. https://twitter.com/sebmck/status/1064252136349822977 https://twitter.com/sebmck/status/1064252136349822977 . If someone who's created that much value is not able to afford an area then it's insulting that tech giants expect us to move there (or have a 2 hour commute to somewhere affordable). There's this terrible myth that I want to kill; that software engineering is a well-paid field. That's a lie. Here's something pharmacists, account managers, farmers can afford: 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom houses near where they work. We can't. We're asked to live in apartments in Jersey and commute 45 minutes to Manhattan every day. Or we work remotely and are expected to take a smaller wage, where the company can't wait to get big enough so that it can force us all to move.

softawre 8y ago
There are tons of jobs all around the country where software engineers can live like kings. I'm typing this from my home office in the midwest, I have a 3500sqft home in the best school district in the state, and the house cost <2x my yearly salary. There are tradeoffs, sure. But it's not a lie to say software engineering is a well paid field.
- Touche 8y ago
  I also live in the midwest and have a similar plush lifestyle. It's dishonest if you think your arrangement is typical.
  - softawre 8y ago
    Typical for what set of people? I guess all that I really know about is - stories I read about bay area devs here and - stories from the people I work with here in my state (there are maybe 5 real tech companies in the state, and I know people at all of them). Even the people on my team who make lower salaries (say 70k-90k in the midwest), half of them have spouses that don't work and they are doing just fine with kids and enough house to support them all. Compared to this dev who created Babel (and is probably a better dev that anybody on my team), it seems insane. It sounds like you're not disagreeing with the tradeoffs, you know them well if you live here. So what do you mean is atypical?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - sl1ck731 8y ago
    It isn't typical for this site, but it is probably typical for a large amount of tech workers who work for non-tech companies. My situation is the same as well. I had no interest in moving to Chicago or a coast and it is amazing how well it works out. I am paid the same as a remote worker in a suburban area as those who work downtown. The only way to make change is to stop giving into tech companies and VCs wanting to force people into moving to high cost areas. I like to think I do my part when I decline any interview requiring onsite by explicitly stating why I will not accept it.
pseudoanonymity 8y ago
eschew
- varjag 8y ago
  …bless you?
  - titanomachy 8y ago
    GP meant "eschew" but typed "askew". Also confused me for a second.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
TarpitCarnivore 8y ago
> There's this terrible myth that I want to kill Can we also add "have to be where the talent is" that is thrown around often?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
oldboyFX 8y ago
> There's this terrible myth that I want to kill; that software engineering is a well-paid field. That's a lie. For me it's been very profitable. > Here's something pharmacists, account managers, farmers can afford: 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom houses near where they work. I can easily afford that. Most software engineers I know can afford that. > We can't. We're asked to live in apartments in Jersey and commute 45 minutes to Manhattan every day. I don't live in NYC. I work from home or from an office 5min away from my home. > Or we work remotely and are expected to take a smaller wage I work remotely and earn more than most engineers in SF. I save 300-400% more. > where the company can't wait to get big enough so that it can force us all to move. I've never experienced this.
- davidjnelson 8y ago
  Was curious about your situation so looked at your profile. > I run a high-grade 2-person consultancy that works with both established companies and passionate entrepreneurs to help them polish their ideas, turn them into state-of-the-art working products, and bring those products into the market. Sounds like you own a successful business. Congratulations, that is very impressive. Keep in mind though that entrepreneurship is far riskier than employment, and this discussion is around being an employee. So it’s not an apples to apples comparison.
  - oldboyFX 8y ago
    Thanks but contracting / doing projects with a friend is hardly "owning a successful business". You wouldn't call $5/hour folks on upwork "business owners". We're basically doing the same thing, selling our time for money.
    - davidjnelson 8y ago
      It’s fairly straightforward if you use the irs definition. Small business owner: files 1099, pays self employment tax. Employee: files 1040, doesn’t pay self employment tax.
- calcifer 8y ago

by Touche 8y ago

softawre 8y ago

There are tons of jobs all around the country where software engineers can live like kings. I'm typing this from my home office in the midwest, I have a 3500sqft home in the best school district in the state, and the house cost <2x my yearly salary. There are tradeoffs, sure. But it's not a lie to say software engineering is a well paid field.

Touche 8y ago
I also live in the midwest and have a similar plush lifestyle. It's dishonest if you think your arrangement is typical.
- softawre 8y ago
  Typical for what set of people? I guess all that I really know about is - stories I read about bay area devs here and - stories from the people I work with here in my state (there are maybe 5 real tech companies in the state, and I know people at all of them). Even the people on my team who make lower salaries (say 70k-90k in the midwest), half of them have spouses that don't work and they are doing just fine with kids and enough house to support them all. Compared to this dev who created Babel (and is probably a better dev that anybody on my team), it seems insane. It sounds like you're not disagreeing with the tradeoffs, you know them well if you live here. So what do you mean is atypical?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- sl1ck731 8y ago
  It isn't typical for this site, but it is probably typical for a large amount of tech workers who work for non-tech companies. My situation is the same as well. I had no interest in moving to Chicago or a coast and it is amazing how well it works out. I am paid the same as a remote worker in a suburban area as those who work downtown. The only way to make change is to stop giving into tech companies and VCs wanting to force people into moving to high cost areas. I like to think I do my part when I decline any interview requiring onsite by explicitly stating why I will not accept it.

pseudoanonymity 8y ago

eschew

varjag 8y ago
…bless you?
- titanomachy 8y ago
  GP meant "eschew" but typed "askew". Also confused me for a second.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

TarpitCarnivore 8y ago

> There's this terrible myth that I want to kill Can we also add "have to be where the talent is" that is thrown around often?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

oldboyFX 8y ago

> There's this terrible myth that I want to kill; that software engineering is a well-paid field. That's a lie. For me it's been very profitable. > Here's something pharmacists, account managers, farmers can afford: 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom houses near where they work. I can easily afford that. Most software engineers I know can afford that. > We can't. We're asked to live in apartments in Jersey and commute 45 minutes to Manhattan every day. I don't live in NYC. I work from home or from an office 5min away from my home. > Or we work remotely and are expected to take a smaller wage I work remotely and earn more than most engineers in SF. I save 300-400% more. > where the company can't wait to get big enough so that it can force us all to move. I've never experienced this.

davidjnelson 8y ago
Was curious about your situation so looked at your profile. > I run a high-grade 2-person consultancy that works with both established companies and passionate entrepreneurs to help them polish their ideas, turn them into state-of-the-art working products, and bring those products into the market. Sounds like you own a successful business. Congratulations, that is very impressive. Keep in mind though that entrepreneurship is far riskier than employment, and this discussion is around being an employee. So it’s not an apples to apples comparison.
- oldboyFX 8y ago
  Thanks but contracting / doing projects with a friend is hardly "owning a successful business". You wouldn't call $5/hour folks on upwork "business owners". We're basically doing the same thing, selling our time for money.
  - davidjnelson 8y ago
    It’s fairly straightforward if you use the irs definition. Small business owner: files 1099, pays self employment tax. Employee: files 1040, doesn’t pay self employment tax.
calcifer 8y ago