7 ms·

People outside of Italy are probably not aware of how seriously they take the topic of olive oil over there. The label "extra vergine" increases the price so mu

People outside of Italy are probably not aware of how seriously they take the topic of olive oil over there. The label "extra vergine" increases the price so much that there is a huge economic incentive for fraud. To combat this they have a taste police (literally) that checks that olive oil samples are not secretly mixes of fresh and old oil together. They are... quite opinionated, as you can see this exchange from when a Dutch journalist came to visit them and asked their opinion on the (supposedly) extra virgin that was sold in the Netherlands[0]. Taster: "This eh... oil is eh... very particular (...) It's Spanish!" Journalist: "It's Spanish? I wouldn't know." T: "Hah, now you know! This smell is very characteristic of Spanish olive oil." J: "But this is not a defect, is it?" T: "Yes." J: "It's defective?" T: "Yes." J: "Because it's Spanish?" Other taster: "For Italian people, yes." A few minutes later[1], the boss comes with a more diplomatic answer: "That the olive oil is Spanish is not a defect per sé, but within our guidelines we do consider it a defective product, because our own oil has a very specific smell and flavour. It's a fine product for Spain, but not for us." EDIT: for the Europeans: the same program also revealed that Carbonell and Bertolli are the same Spanish company with a different label, with pretty much the same (mostly) Spanish olive oil. In case you care about that sort of thing. Personally I'm kind of curious how Greek olive oil fits in this picture. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkO1dwx2_KA&t=16m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkO1dwx2_KA&t=16m [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkO1dwx2_KA&t=19m26s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkO1dwx2_KA&t=19m26s

docbrown 8y ago
In addition to Italy, Europe as a whole is pretty picky when it comes to olive oil. As an anglo who was introduced to authentic olive oil imported from Greece.. there is a very serious distinct taste difference between cheap and legitimate olive oil.
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  I think that in the northern parts of Europe we still seem to be pretty oblivious, so I would limit that to the Mediterranean area. And having tasted proper local food during my trips there, I can't exactly blame the people from there for being picky. Like you said, the taste difference is huge, and there also is a large romantic component to it: most recipes are quite simple, but rely on using fresh ingredients. It's very anti-industrial by nature.
- giardini 8y ago
  docbrown says> "there is a very serious distinct taste difference between cheap and legitimate olive oil." Is there a taste/test that someone like me, who is a neophyte and definitely not an expert, could distinguish/use?
  - vanderZwan 8y ago
    A side by side comparison. It's very hard to miss, unless your sense of smell is diminished for whatever reason.
  - peterwwillis 8y ago
    It should be "active" in your mouth, a bit peppery, and the taste should linger for a minute or more; it should taste like it's alive. It should be just slightly bitter and you should note a grassy flavor/aroma, like good Japanese green tea, as well as a distinct olive smell. It should be only barely acidic, as inferior oils have more acid. If you're buying in a supermarket, you are almost always buying oil blends from multiple countries. Read the back of the label where a guide tells you where the oil came from; if you're lucky you can find one bottle that only came from one country. If at all possible, check the websites of the different options and see what production methods they use. Go with either first cold pressed (no added heat, pressed with mats to extract oil) or 2-centrifuge process. If you're buying in an oil and vinegar tasting room, sample everything and go with what tastes best to you, because that's mostly the purpose of buying EVOO (in addition to the nutritional benefits of well produced EVOO). Ask the seller more questions and you will probably find that almost all the oils there are centrifuge-made, and they'll have maybe one bottle of mat-pressed oil in the back that's more expensive, and probably tastes drastically different than the rest. You basically want to buy an expensive EVOO, and a cheap olive oil; the difference being that you would use regular olive oil for cooking, and EVOO for flavoring.
  - jnurmine 8y ago
    The first time I tried high quality olive oil was at at an Italian restaurant. The oil was delivered with a piece of freshly baked bread and a small container of salt flakes. When I tasted it I thought it was unreal. It was that good. I don't remember the restaurant or even where it was, but do remember the tasting experience!
- AndyMcConachie 8y ago
  Many years ago I started using an Iraqi olive oil that I still love to cook with. I can only buy it in Turkish shops, but I've never been able to find anything else quite like it. I live in The Netherlands. If you happen to visit a wine growing region try instead to go olive oil tasting. Typically the two go together and I find different olive oils much more interesting. In addition if you bring back 2 or 3 good bottles of oil they will last much longer than 2-3 bottles of wine.
fmihaila 8y ago
> The label "extra vergine" increases the price of oil so much that there is a huge economic incentive for fraud. It's also a huge economic incentive for the Mafia to get involved, according to the Financial Times: https://outline.com/bH8KVt https://outline.com/bH8KVt. It is a huge problem, and it doesn't stop at olive oil.
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  Aren't "fraud" (on the scale we are talking about) and "the Mafia gets involved" kind of the same thing over there? EDIT: I remember reading the article you linked, it's really good! Goes into much more than just olive oil fraud.
- mikecaron 8y ago
  https://youtu.be/gCdXiOssbM0 https://youtu.be/gCdXiOssbM0
btilly 8y ago
To that I'd suggest reading https://lifehacker.com/the-most-and-least-fake-extra-virgin-olive-oil-brands-1460894373 https://lifehacker.com/the-most-and-least-fake-extra-virgin-.... Since then I've bought California olive oil and giggled at all of the Italian brands. About the article, my honest first thought was, "Does it matter? They already weren't selling olive oil in the first place, now they just have to pretend harder."
- airstrike 8y ago
  "You might raise your eyebrows at the conclusion that Australian and California extra virgin olive oils are purer than most Italian olive oils, since the research was partially funded by the California Olive Ranch and the California Olive Oil Council and has ties with the Australian Olive Association"
  - vanderZwan 8y ago
    Well, most Italian olive oils sold in California. I think that makes it a lot less surprising. The regulations of the oil fraud police of Italy only apply to Italy, after all.
    - toyg 8y ago
      Also of note that Italian companies tend to sell their best food at home, where competition is fiercer and taste is more discerning. The exported stuff is traditionally weaker, because foreign markets are less picky.
  - ip26 8y ago
    Perhaps, but that's five years old and there's been no serious refutation I've heard of. It's not like there aren't legitimate reasons to back a study that might reveal something you've long suspected, e.g. that your competitors are frauds...
  - tomohawk 8y ago
    California Olive Ranch is a great brand. Can't recommend it highly enough.
pingec 8y ago
I'm also picky about olive oil. I've heard about countless scams in Italy about fake olive oil on TV. Also to me most commercial olive oils from the South (Italy, Greece, Spain) taste quite mild/soft compared to our olive oil from "Istrska Belica" / "Bianchera" variety. We make our own olive oil, it is not a commercial endeavour so quality is first above everything else even though this variety is a PITA to grow. It is difficult to prune, more susceptible to various fungal diseases, has a tendency to produce on alternating years but the flavor makes up for those troubles.
- monodeldiablo 8y ago
  Most commercial olive oils use heat extraction, which can also mellow the flavor (in addition to factors like fruit maturity and variety). We have almost 100 trees of a common variety ("Oblica") that is regarded as very mild, and a few local varieties ("Lastovka", etc) which is usually considered very spicy and flavorful. But I've made mellow Lastovka oil and sensational Oblica. There are a lot of variables to manage. P.S. Naš je najlipše ulje. Naravno.
hinkley 8y ago
The French use regionalism with wine to control this without sounding... well let’s just say it: racist. I’m surprised there aren’t appellations for Italian olive oil, if they care so much about it being domestic.
- riffraff 8y ago
  italy consumes 3 times as much oil as it produces. But all bottles have a label that says where the oil or olives come from, it's just that nobody takes time to read it. And of course, people want 1L of EVOO for 8 euros, not 20, so the big distribution carries mostly those.
  - hinkley 8y ago
    Wow, I had no idea about the mismatch between supply and demand. On a French wine label, the appellation is often the second biggest text on the label. IIRC on olive oil 'extra virgin' is the second biggest. Maybe the appellation should assume EVOO and work from there?
  - angott 8y ago
    Another problem is that the labeling laws apply only to oil bottles sold in Italy/EU. Most olive oil sold in North America by Italian companies will just say "Product of Italy" without mentioning that the olives used come from Tunisia or other countries. The US and Canadian labeling laws are a joke compared to most European countries, and should definitely improve on this.
- squozzer 8y ago
  I think we could apply the terms "nationalist", "patriotic", or even "chauvinistic" terms in this context without too much penalty.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- inferiorhuman 8y ago
  See also: Japanese vs Californian rice.
gnulinux 8y ago
I personally always found Tunisian or Turkish olive oil the best, or Greek as a replacement.
buboard 8y ago
In fact a lot of that "Italian" oil is superior Greek oil mixed with italian lampante https://greece.greekreporter.com/2017/09/21/how-italian-companies-profit-from-exports-of-greek-olive-oil/ https://greece.greekreporter.com/2017/09/21/how-italian-comp... Greek olive oil exporters have a hard time exporting it to retail , because it is hard to secure the large quantities needed and it varies seasonally. Also a lot of it is consumed domestically, often not even sold in supermarkets, but directly from producers. The rest of it is exported in bulk in cheap prices, mainly in Italy.
inferiorhuman 8y ago
> People outside of Italy are probably not aware of how seriously they take the topic of olive oil over there. The label "extra vergine" increases the price so much that there is a huge economic incentive for fraud. https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/07/06/chemists-detect-olive-oil-fraud-11523 https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/07/06/chemists-detect-olive-o... Around half the oil labeled as extra virgin olive oil is fake. If memory serves part of the problem is that the labeling laws in Europe are much less strict than they are in the United States. This is why you might see a tool marked "Made in Germany" that's actually made in Turkey and merely packaged in Germany. In the United States you'd see something along the lines of "Made in the US with foreign and domestic components" or "Assembled in the US". Personally I've stuck with one or two brands of olive oil from California because it's a.) supporting my local economy and b.) a known quantity.
bassman9000 8y ago
That's rich :) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11988947/Italian-companies-investigated-for-passing-off-ordinary-olive-oil-as-extra-virgin.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/1198... https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the-olive-oil-scam-if-80-is-fake-why-do-you-keep-buying-it/#2d0f322639d7 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the... https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/world/europe/italy-olive-oil.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/world/europe/italy-olive-...
ggm 8y ago
We buy Spanish by preference when we cook. We buy Australian extra virgin for drissle
isolli 8y ago
And the problem is not new: the Romans were already fighting olive-oil fraud! From Olive Oil's Dark Side [0]: "The Romans instituted elaborate mechanisms to prevent fraud. [...] These careful records were intended to prevent the siphoning off of oil en route, or the substitution of an inferior product." The whole article is very interesting! [0] https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/olive-oils-dark-side https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/olive-oils-dark-...

docbrown 8y ago

In addition to Italy, Europe as a whole is pretty picky when it comes to olive oil. As an anglo who was introduced to authentic olive oil imported from Greece.. there is a very serious distinct taste difference between cheap and legitimate olive oil.

vanderZwan 8y ago
I think that in the northern parts of Europe we still seem to be pretty oblivious, so I would limit that to the Mediterranean area. And having tasted proper local food during my trips there, I can't exactly blame the people from there for being picky. Like you said, the taste difference is huge, and there also is a large romantic component to it: most recipes are quite simple, but rely on using fresh ingredients. It's very anti-industrial by nature.
giardini 8y ago
docbrown says> "there is a very serious distinct taste difference between cheap and legitimate olive oil." Is there a taste/test that someone like me, who is a neophyte and definitely not an expert, could distinguish/use?
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  A side by side comparison. It's very hard to miss, unless your sense of smell is diminished for whatever reason.
- peterwwillis 8y ago
  It should be "active" in your mouth, a bit peppery, and the taste should linger for a minute or more; it should taste like it's alive. It should be just slightly bitter and you should note a grassy flavor/aroma, like good Japanese green tea, as well as a distinct olive smell. It should be only barely acidic, as inferior oils have more acid. If you're buying in a supermarket, you are almost always buying oil blends from multiple countries. Read the back of the label where a guide tells you where the oil came from; if you're lucky you can find one bottle that only came from one country. If at all possible, check the websites of the different options and see what production methods they use. Go with either first cold pressed (no added heat, pressed with mats to extract oil) or 2-centrifuge process. If you're buying in an oil and vinegar tasting room, sample everything and go with what tastes best to you, because that's mostly the purpose of buying EVOO (in addition to the nutritional benefits of well produced EVOO). Ask the seller more questions and you will probably find that almost all the oils there are centrifuge-made, and they'll have maybe one bottle of mat-pressed oil in the back that's more expensive, and probably tastes drastically different than the rest. You basically want to buy an expensive EVOO, and a cheap olive oil; the difference being that you would use regular olive oil for cooking, and EVOO for flavoring.
- jnurmine 8y ago
  The first time I tried high quality olive oil was at at an Italian restaurant. The oil was delivered with a piece of freshly baked bread and a small container of salt flakes. When I tasted it I thought it was unreal. It was that good. I don't remember the restaurant or even where it was, but do remember the tasting experience!
AndyMcConachie 8y ago
Many years ago I started using an Iraqi olive oil that I still love to cook with. I can only buy it in Turkish shops, but I've never been able to find anything else quite like it. I live in The Netherlands. If you happen to visit a wine growing region try instead to go olive oil tasting. Typically the two go together and I find different olive oils much more interesting. In addition if you bring back 2 or 3 good bottles of oil they will last much longer than 2-3 bottles of wine.

fmihaila 8y ago

> The label "extra vergine" increases the price of oil so much that there is a huge economic incentive for fraud. It's also a huge economic incentive for the Mafia to get involved, according to the Financial Times: https://outline.com/bH8KVt https://outline.com/bH8KVt. It is a huge problem, and it doesn't stop at olive oil.

vanderZwan 8y ago
Aren't "fraud" (on the scale we are talking about) and "the Mafia gets involved" kind of the same thing over there? EDIT: I remember reading the article you linked, it's really good! Goes into much more than just olive oil fraud.
mikecaron 8y ago
https://youtu.be/gCdXiOssbM0 https://youtu.be/gCdXiOssbM0

btilly 8y ago

To that I'd suggest reading https://lifehacker.com/the-most-and-least-fake-extra-virgin-olive-oil-brands-1460894373 https://lifehacker.com/the-most-and-least-fake-extra-virgin-.... Since then I've bought California olive oil and giggled at all of the Italian brands. About the article, my honest first thought was, "Does it matter? They already weren't selling olive oil in the first place, now they just have to pretend harder."

airstrike 8y ago
"You might raise your eyebrows at the conclusion that Australian and California extra virgin olive oils are purer than most Italian olive oils, since the research was partially funded by the California Olive Ranch and the California Olive Oil Council and has ties with the Australian Olive Association"
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  Well, most Italian olive oils sold in California. I think that makes it a lot less surprising. The regulations of the oil fraud police of Italy only apply to Italy, after all.
  - toyg 8y ago
    Also of note that Italian companies tend to sell their best food at home, where competition is fiercer and taste is more discerning. The exported stuff is traditionally weaker, because foreign markets are less picky.
- ip26 8y ago
  Perhaps, but that's five years old and there's been no serious refutation I've heard of. It's not like there aren't legitimate reasons to back a study that might reveal something you've long suspected, e.g. that your competitors are frauds...
- tomohawk 8y ago
  California Olive Ranch is a great brand. Can't recommend it highly enough.

pingec 8y ago

I'm also picky about olive oil. I've heard about countless scams in Italy about fake olive oil on TV. Also to me most commercial olive oils from the South (Italy, Greece, Spain) taste quite mild/soft compared to our olive oil from "Istrska Belica" / "Bianchera" variety. We make our own olive oil, it is not a commercial endeavour so quality is first above everything else even though this variety is a PITA to grow. It is difficult to prune, more susceptible to various fungal diseases, has a tendency to produce on alternating years but the flavor makes up for those troubles.

monodeldiablo 8y ago
Most commercial olive oils use heat extraction, which can also mellow the flavor (in addition to factors like fruit maturity and variety). We have almost 100 trees of a common variety ("Oblica") that is regarded as very mild, and a few local varieties ("Lastovka", etc) which is usually considered very spicy and flavorful. But I've made mellow Lastovka oil and sensational Oblica. There are a lot of variables to manage. P.S. Naš je najlipše ulje. Naravno.

hinkley 8y ago

The French use regionalism with wine to control this without sounding... well let’s just say it: racist. I’m surprised there aren’t appellations for Italian olive oil, if they care so much about it being domestic.

riffraff 8y ago
italy consumes 3 times as much oil as it produces. But all bottles have a label that says where the oil or olives come from, it's just that nobody takes time to read it. And of course, people want 1L of EVOO for 8 euros, not 20, so the big distribution carries mostly those.
- hinkley 8y ago
  Wow, I had no idea about the mismatch between supply and demand. On a French wine label, the appellation is often the second biggest text on the label. IIRC on olive oil 'extra virgin' is the second biggest. Maybe the appellation should assume EVOO and work from there?
- angott 8y ago
  Another problem is that the labeling laws apply only to oil bottles sold in Italy/EU. Most olive oil sold in North America by Italian companies will just say "Product of Italy" without mentioning that the olives used come from Tunisia or other countries. The US and Canadian labeling laws are a joke compared to most European countries, and should definitely improve on this.
squozzer 8y ago
I think we could apply the terms "nationalist", "patriotic", or even "chauvinistic" terms in this context without too much penalty.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
inferiorhuman 8y ago
See also: Japanese vs Californian rice.

gnulinux 8y ago

I personally always found Tunisian or Turkish olive oil the best, or Greek as a replacement.

buboard 8y ago

In fact a lot of that "Italian" oil is superior Greek oil mixed with italian lampante https://greece.greekreporter.com/2017/09/21/how-italian-companies-profit-from-exports-of-greek-olive-oil/ https://greece.greekreporter.com/2017/09/21/how-italian-comp... Greek olive oil exporters have a hard time exporting it to retail , because it is hard to secure the large quantities needed and it varies seasonally. Also a lot of it is consumed domestically, often not even sold in supermarkets, but directly from producers. The rest of it is exported in bulk in cheap prices, mainly in Italy.

inferiorhuman 8y ago

> People outside of Italy are probably not aware of how seriously they take the topic of olive oil over there. The label "extra vergine" increases the price so much that there is a huge economic incentive for fraud. https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/07/06/chemists-detect-olive-oil-fraud-11523 https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/07/06/chemists-detect-olive-o... Around half the oil labeled as extra virgin olive oil is fake. If memory serves part of the problem is that the labeling laws in Europe are much less strict than they are in the United States. This is why you might see a tool marked "Made in Germany" that's actually made in Turkey and merely packaged in Germany. In the United States you'd see something along the lines of "Made in the US with foreign and domestic components" or "Assembled in the US". Personally I've stuck with one or two brands of olive oil from California because it's a.) supporting my local economy and b.) a known quantity.

bassman9000 8y ago

That's rich :) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11988947/Italian-companies-investigated-for-passing-off-ordinary-olive-oil-as-extra-virgin.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/1198... https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the-olive-oil-scam-if-80-is-fake-why-do-you-keep-buying-it/#2d0f322639d7 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the... https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/world/europe/italy-olive-oil.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/world/europe/italy-olive-...

ggm 8y ago

We buy Spanish by preference when we cook. We buy Australian extra virgin for drissle

isolli 8y ago

And the problem is not new: the Romans were already fighting olive-oil fraud! From Olive Oil's Dark Side [0]: "The Romans instituted elaborate mechanisms to prevent fraud. [...] These careful records were intended to prevent the siphoning off of oil en route, or the substitution of an inferior product." The whole article is very interesting! [0] https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/olive-oils-dark-side https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/olive-oils-dark-...