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Another thing we should try is learning to not be afraid of death. If we aren't afraid of death, then getting old is not such a big deal. Atheists have no rea

by yters 8y ago

Another thing we should try is learning to not be afraid of death. If we aren't afraid of death, then getting old is not such a big deal. Atheists have no reason to fear death, because then there is nothing. Religious people only have to fear death if they are living in a way they know is wrong. So, best bet is to live consistent with the majority of lasting world religions, and either there is nothing or there is blissful afterlife. Plus, the present life will be better, too. Win, win!

ryukafalz 8y ago
>Atheists have no reason to fear death, because then there is nothing. Well, I'm not afraid of being dead. I sure do like being alive though, and would prefer that to continue!
- yters 8y ago
  Once you are dead you won't be aware life is no longer continuing. The only sticking point is the time leading up to death when one's fear of death makes them miserable. If the person can do away with the fear then they'll maximize their happy moments in the short time we have in this world. Since death is inevitable due to the eventual heat death of the universe, then from an operations research perspective it makes much more sense to focus effort on getting rid of the fear of death than trying to end death itself.
  - AQuantized 8y ago
    There's probably a middle ground between 80 years of life and the several billion any potential heat death will take to manifest.
  - gxigzigxigxi 8y ago
    > Since death is inevitable due to the eventual heat death of the universe, then from an operations research perspective it makes much more sense to focus effort on getting rid of the fear of death than trying to end death itself. I don’t think that’s true from a global optimization perspective. If you’re trying to maximize contented moments, it makes sense to spend time thinking about how to extend life (assuming you’re talking about the number of happy moments for people who are currently alive), even if those moments still must eventually cease. Because trillions of years of happy moments is a lot more than 80-100 years of happy moments. Only if you’re trying to minimize unhappy moments does removing fear of death become a better goal. However, from a local optimization perspective, since there is little anyone can individually do about their medium term probability of death, I agree that figuring out how to cope with and minimize that fear is probably the best strategy.
    - yters 8y ago
      Right, I mean from the individual's perspective, since why should the individual care about optimizing an aggregate the individual will never experience?
chumali 8y ago
This is effectively a restatement of Pascal's Wager and therefore suffers from the same problems as the original formulation. The promise of a blissful afterlife is an insufficient basis for a morally authentic life, and the individual adopting theistic morals on that premise is acting in bad faith.
- gxigzigxigxi 8y ago
  That only matters if the deity in question cares for the cause of your morals. Which surely a class of theoretical deities would, but not all imaginable ones.
Tepix 8y ago
> Atheists have no reason to fear death, because then there is nothing. To me - as an atheist - not believing in an afterlife makes death a lot scarier. Once you're dead it's over.
- spicymaki 8y ago
  If you believed that a omniscient omnipresent being is judging your every move inoder to determine whether to put you in a state of heavenly bliss or eternal damnation after death, you might be a little scared.
gxigzigxigxi 8y ago
I think if you can mostly get over your fear of death that’s greAt, but I’m not sure it is feasible. Fear of death is evolutionarily adaptive like almost nothing else is, so it’s wired in at a pretty deep level. (You wouldn’t want to entirely escape it —- a little fear is good to keep you from doing stupid thing.)
adrianN 8y ago
I'm not afraid of death. I'm afraid of senescence. Being old really sucks. Everything hurts, your brain rots, eventually you're nothing but a burden on other people.
- yters 8y ago
  That also seems a matter of perspective. It is unfortunate in our culture that the elderly are looked down upon, instead of as an excellent source of wisdom about how not to die early and live a happy life. It seems effort is more efficiently spent in changing perspective in ourselves and those around us, rather than trying to fight off inevitable old age and death.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    Having taken care of someone who succumbed to dementia, I can say with some authority that it's not a matter of perspective. The last years of life are an absolute horror show for a depressingly large fraction of the population.
    - yters 8y ago
      It still is a matter of perspective. Should a person who is unhappy and a burden for others be discarded by society, or should society do their best to make the person feel welcome? If society can do the latter then everyone is in a better place.
      - adrianN 8y ago
        You can make people with dementia as welcome as you like, you still have to change their diapers, wake up to their screaming at night and keep a constant eye on them so that they don't hurt themselves or wander off. It's like having to take care of a 80kg baby that doesn't grow up and only gets worse. Add to this the psychological burden of having known this person before their illness.
        8y ago
Nursie 8y ago
> Atheists have no reason to fear death, because then there is nothing. This is somewhat trite, IMHO. I don't fear the state of being dead, I fear getting there (death is unlikely to be fun) and I deeply fear not existing any more, and my time coming to an end. I like being.
undersuit 8y ago
I'm an atheist. I fear death because that means I stop discovering. You can't discover nothing.
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  It's a singularity - there's no 'you' to do anything, so its not quite right to say what 'you' will be doing after death? 0/0
JoeAltmaier 8y ago
Don't be fooled by this sophistry. As a smart guy said once, "It's not that I fear death; I just don't want to be there when it happens". Another lady of my acquaintance said "Old age is not for the timid". There's plenty to fear about getting old.

by yters 8y ago

ryukafalz 8y ago

>Atheists have no reason to fear death, because then there is nothing. Well, I'm not afraid of being dead. I sure do like being alive though, and would prefer that to continue!

yters 8y ago
Once you are dead you won't be aware life is no longer continuing. The only sticking point is the time leading up to death when one's fear of death makes them miserable. If the person can do away with the fear then they'll maximize their happy moments in the short time we have in this world. Since death is inevitable due to the eventual heat death of the universe, then from an operations research perspective it makes much more sense to focus effort on getting rid of the fear of death than trying to end death itself.
- AQuantized 8y ago
  There's probably a middle ground between 80 years of life and the several billion any potential heat death will take to manifest.
- gxigzigxigxi 8y ago
  > Since death is inevitable due to the eventual heat death of the universe, then from an operations research perspective it makes much more sense to focus effort on getting rid of the fear of death than trying to end death itself. I don’t think that’s true from a global optimization perspective. If you’re trying to maximize contented moments, it makes sense to spend time thinking about how to extend life (assuming you’re talking about the number of happy moments for people who are currently alive), even if those moments still must eventually cease. Because trillions of years of happy moments is a lot more than 80-100 years of happy moments. Only if you’re trying to minimize unhappy moments does removing fear of death become a better goal. However, from a local optimization perspective, since there is little anyone can individually do about their medium term probability of death, I agree that figuring out how to cope with and minimize that fear is probably the best strategy.
  - yters 8y ago
    Right, I mean from the individual's perspective, since why should the individual care about optimizing an aggregate the individual will never experience?

chumali 8y ago

This is effectively a restatement of Pascal's Wager and therefore suffers from the same problems as the original formulation. The promise of a blissful afterlife is an insufficient basis for a morally authentic life, and the individual adopting theistic morals on that premise is acting in bad faith.

gxigzigxigxi 8y ago
That only matters if the deity in question cares for the cause of your morals. Which surely a class of theoretical deities would, but not all imaginable ones.

Tepix 8y ago

> Atheists have no reason to fear death, because then there is nothing. To me - as an atheist - not believing in an afterlife makes death a lot scarier. Once you're dead it's over.

spicymaki 8y ago
If you believed that a omniscient omnipresent being is judging your every move inoder to determine whether to put you in a state of heavenly bliss or eternal damnation after death, you might be a little scared.

gxigzigxigxi 8y ago

I think if you can mostly get over your fear of death that’s greAt, but I’m not sure it is feasible. Fear of death is evolutionarily adaptive like almost nothing else is, so it’s wired in at a pretty deep level. (You wouldn’t want to entirely escape it —- a little fear is good to keep you from doing stupid thing.)

adrianN 8y ago

I'm not afraid of death. I'm afraid of senescence. Being old really sucks. Everything hurts, your brain rots, eventually you're nothing but a burden on other people.

yters 8y ago
That also seems a matter of perspective. It is unfortunate in our culture that the elderly are looked down upon, instead of as an excellent source of wisdom about how not to die early and live a happy life. It seems effort is more efficiently spent in changing perspective in ourselves and those around us, rather than trying to fight off inevitable old age and death.
- adrianN 8y ago
  Having taken care of someone who succumbed to dementia, I can say with some authority that it's not a matter of perspective. The last years of life are an absolute horror show for a depressingly large fraction of the population.
  - yters 8y ago
    It still is a matter of perspective. Should a person who is unhappy and a burden for others be discarded by society, or should society do their best to make the person feel welcome? If society can do the latter then everyone is in a better place.
    - adrianN 8y ago
      You can make people with dementia as welcome as you like, you still have to change their diapers, wake up to their screaming at night and keep a constant eye on them so that they don't hurt themselves or wander off. It's like having to take care of a 80kg baby that doesn't grow up and only gets worse. Add to this the psychological burden of having known this person before their illness.
      - 8y ago

Nursie 8y ago

> Atheists have no reason to fear death, because then there is nothing. This is somewhat trite, IMHO. I don't fear the state of being dead, I fear getting there (death is unlikely to be fun) and I deeply fear not existing any more, and my time coming to an end. I like being.

undersuit 8y ago

I'm an atheist. I fear death because that means I stop discovering. You can't discover nothing.

JoeAltmaier 8y ago
It's a singularity - there's no 'you' to do anything, so its not quite right to say what 'you' will be doing after death? 0/0

JoeAltmaier 8y ago

Don't be fooled by this sophistry. As a smart guy said once, "It's not that I fear death; I just don't want to be there when it happens". Another lady of my acquaintance said "Old age is not for the timid". There's plenty to fear about getting old.