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I think this article doesn't really explain what the setters are focusing on here, and it's actually quite interesting. When setting for a bouldering competitio

I think this article doesn't really explain what the setters are focusing on here, and it's actually quite interesting. When setting for a bouldering competition, the problems you create must satisfy very precise constraints: namely, create good separation between competitors, but still be entertaining for spectators. Separation is the hard part. In finals you have a handful of competitors doing a handful of problems, and the perfect separation you're going for is something like this: 1st place: 4 tops 2st place: 3 tops 3rd place: 2 tops ... Of course this rarely ever happens, but it's approximately what you're aiming for. It's hard. You have to know the exact level of the competitors that are participating, and fine-tune the difficulty of the problems so that they will be nicely separated, preferably without depending on height/reach or overly specific strengths. Even world-class setters sometimes fail at this, for example creating a world cup where almost every finalist gets 1 top, leaving only the number of attempts (or zones) to separate them. There's still technically separation, but it's catastrophically frustrating for spectators and competitors, and the results will be less likely to reflect each competitor's actual climbing skill. With all that, you also want the problems to have creative and interesting moves that get the crowd going wild (but that's really the fun part of setting). Source: I'm a routesetter, both regular gym climbs and competitions.

hailk 8y ago
> preferably without depending on height/reach or overly specific strengths. How do you attain this? From an amateur hobbyist eye it seems that bouldering as a sport favours lean + tall builds -> Reach + light-weight advantage. How do you set routes that disadvantage this type?
- kankroc 8y ago
  As a lean and tall bouldering amateur, anything where my feet gets close to my hands will be extremely hard to keep. Sample size of 1.
  - chronial 8y ago
    Make that two :). To elaborate: different body sizes give you different balance points, different leverage and different angles of attack. That can make specific moves harder for taller people.
- jasonkester 8y ago
  Surprisingly, there's a bit of a bell curve, maxing out at 5'9" being the ideal height. But it only makes about a single grade of difference. Short folk have incredible strength to weight ratios and fine motor control from short levers. Tall people can reach farther, but can't apply the necessary force or use tiny holds as well. It all evens out in the long run, though you'll see big differences for individual lines that target a single style. My wife and I climb at the same level despite a foot of height difference. She stays away from my long throws and compression problems. I try not to feel the tiny crimps on her projects, and it all works out in the end.
  - hailk 8y ago
    Agreed with tiny holds causing problems. But I presumed it was a grip strength problem, which still doesn't take away from my advantage as a tall-leaner. Though it could also be because I must've not done challenging routes.
    - jasonkester 8y ago
      It is. But again, with longer fingers you need more strength to produce the same force at the fingertip (because you're applying muscle force to the short end of the lever). Combined with the extra weight from the rest of a longer body, it makes pulling on small holds a lot harder for tall folk. But then we can often simply reach past those small holds to the big jug beyond, so it tends to work itself out.
      - saiya-jin 8y ago
        I can confirm this - as 188cm tall guy, even if I can reach further, the strain i get on my fingers from my relatively heavy body is taking its toll on the fingers. I can't climb few days in a row, would end up with tendinitis. It doesn't help that I have a 'flexible type' of the body (can bend like crazy, but tendons/ligament injuries across whole body are much more common). And I started with climbing when I was 30, unlike many in their teens who seem to climb much harder without big effort. If I would be a competitive person, I would be very frustrated with my little climbing progress. But instead I enjoy the constant challenge, the uneasiness of hard routes, the mental push through in cruxes. As they say, life begins where comfort zone ends. Overall, best sport for me for the warm days (rock experience is vastly superior to gym one), and ski touring/alpinism for the cold ones.
- pierrec 8y ago
  Ideally, setters should put up a variety of moves and problems that slightly favor different body types. Also ideally, have forerunners of different body types, and fix the problem if it takes discrimination too far (eg. a move that's literally impossible if you're a bit too short).
- GiuseppaAcciaio 8y ago
  I'm tall and lean-ish, and my nemesis are those problems where you are compressed in a tight package... Depending on the climber's own physique and technique, the same problem can often be attacked in completely different ways.
Fricken 8y ago
Are you familiar with Teknik Holds? A guy I've known from around the gym most of my life founded the company. I'm getting back into climbing after a long hiatus, and I ran into him a few weeks ago. Later on I looked up his company and apparently there are a lot of competition routesetters out there who swear by his holds, and that the style of holds he shaped were quite influential. I'm not sure if I got the right impression or not.
- pierrec 8y ago
  Totally! Teknik is one of the most popular makers out there. A while back I set a steep problem with only holds from their "geomatics" series, they're great to work with. (PS I'm out for tonight)
  - Fricken 8y ago
    Awesome, that's great to hear. I remember when he brought his first batch out to the local gym in the late 90s, and those holds exploited all kinds of weaknesses I didn't know I had. They were totally different from any plastic I had climbed on before, and now the gyms are dominated by holds like what he was making. I was never sure if he was following a trend, or setting it.

hailk 8y ago

> preferably without depending on height/reach or overly specific strengths. How do you attain this? From an amateur hobbyist eye it seems that bouldering as a sport favours lean + tall builds -> Reach + light-weight advantage. How do you set routes that disadvantage this type?

kankroc 8y ago
As a lean and tall bouldering amateur, anything where my feet gets close to my hands will be extremely hard to keep. Sample size of 1.
- chronial 8y ago
  Make that two :). To elaborate: different body sizes give you different balance points, different leverage and different angles of attack. That can make specific moves harder for taller people.
jasonkester 8y ago
Surprisingly, there's a bit of a bell curve, maxing out at 5'9" being the ideal height. But it only makes about a single grade of difference. Short folk have incredible strength to weight ratios and fine motor control from short levers. Tall people can reach farther, but can't apply the necessary force or use tiny holds as well. It all evens out in the long run, though you'll see big differences for individual lines that target a single style. My wife and I climb at the same level despite a foot of height difference. She stays away from my long throws and compression problems. I try not to feel the tiny crimps on her projects, and it all works out in the end.
- hailk 8y ago
  Agreed with tiny holds causing problems. But I presumed it was a grip strength problem, which still doesn't take away from my advantage as a tall-leaner. Though it could also be because I must've not done challenging routes.
  - jasonkester 8y ago
    It is. But again, with longer fingers you need more strength to produce the same force at the fingertip (because you're applying muscle force to the short end of the lever). Combined with the extra weight from the rest of a longer body, it makes pulling on small holds a lot harder for tall folk. But then we can often simply reach past those small holds to the big jug beyond, so it tends to work itself out.
    - saiya-jin 8y ago
      I can confirm this - as 188cm tall guy, even if I can reach further, the strain i get on my fingers from my relatively heavy body is taking its toll on the fingers. I can't climb few days in a row, would end up with tendinitis. It doesn't help that I have a 'flexible type' of the body (can bend like crazy, but tendons/ligament injuries across whole body are much more common). And I started with climbing when I was 30, unlike many in their teens who seem to climb much harder without big effort. If I would be a competitive person, I would be very frustrated with my little climbing progress. But instead I enjoy the constant challenge, the uneasiness of hard routes, the mental push through in cruxes. As they say, life begins where comfort zone ends. Overall, best sport for me for the warm days (rock experience is vastly superior to gym one), and ski touring/alpinism for the cold ones.
pierrec 8y ago
Ideally, setters should put up a variety of moves and problems that slightly favor different body types. Also ideally, have forerunners of different body types, and fix the problem if it takes discrimination too far (eg. a move that's literally impossible if you're a bit too short).
GiuseppaAcciaio 8y ago
I'm tall and lean-ish, and my nemesis are those problems where you are compressed in a tight package... Depending on the climber's own physique and technique, the same problem can often be attacked in completely different ways.

Fricken 8y ago

Are you familiar with Teknik Holds? A guy I've known from around the gym most of my life founded the company. I'm getting back into climbing after a long hiatus, and I ran into him a few weeks ago. Later on I looked up his company and apparently there are a lot of competition routesetters out there who swear by his holds, and that the style of holds he shaped were quite influential. I'm not sure if I got the right impression or not.

pierrec 8y ago
Totally! Teknik is one of the most popular makers out there. A while back I set a steep problem with only holds from their "geomatics" series, they're great to work with. (PS I'm out for tonight)
- Fricken 8y ago
  Awesome, that's great to hear. I remember when he brought his first batch out to the local gym in the late 90s, and those holds exploited all kinds of weaknesses I didn't know I had. They were totally different from any plastic I had climbed on before, and now the gyms are dominated by holds like what he was making. I was never sure if he was following a trend, or setting it.