9 ms·

I've recently been doing a fair amount of traveling to tech-heavy cities from my base in the Rust Belt. I see all the money and development going on in places

by csense 8y ago

I've recently been doing a fair amount of traveling to tech-heavy cities from my base in the Rust Belt. I see all the money and development going on in places like this, and it amazes me how growing and non-dysfunctional these economies are. How do we get Google to move, say, 10% of those high-paying jobs to places whose economy really needs them? Clearly money alone isn't a motivator, I just did a quick check and 3 times that amount of highway adjacent, commercial zoned acreage is available in my zip code for 1% of this price.

gammateam 8y ago
I get your question is how, the answer is that its not gonna happen Bezos’ fake contest accurately reflects the coastal mentality. There is a culture that supports this industry which has history that wont be replicated by a random town that wants to call itself Silicon Apalachia/whatever geographic feature is nearby
usaar333 8y ago
> How do we get Google to move, say, 10% of those high-paying jobs to places whose economy really needs them? You'd need to incentivize a critical mass of high-paid workers to be willing to move there. As you note, money won't do it -- you'd need to offer some sort of unique opportunity. Finding such a thing is a very hard problem..
- SomewhatLikely 8y ago
  You really do need a critical mass. I moved for my last job search and one option was for LinkedIn in Omaha. Compared to a tech hub, such a job is risky. I'm starting a family and would prefer they don't have to move more than necessary. Jobs don't always work out and living in a city with lots of tech jobs means I don't have to ever move again because of work if I don't want to. Then there's the added bonuses when a certain percentage of your community work in tech. Then the goals of your community align better with your goals for your kids, for entertainment, recreation, shopping, the environment, etc.
AuthorizedCust 8y ago
Does your ZIP code have the kind of employees that Google needs to succeed?
- deathanatos 8y ago
  Does his/her ZIP code have the kind of employers those employees need to succeed? It's a chicken and egg problem. Personally, I put the onus on the companies, as they have much more power than any individual employee does. It is certainly possible for a company of that size to open a small office, and gradually grow it, whereas an employee is restricted to what jobs are available in that area. And we need more diversification geographically; too much is centered on the Bay Area, and the Bay Area's housing crisis is proof of it.
  - goodcanadian 8y ago
    The trouble I've personally seen is that the companies believe they can pay less in the lower cost of living areas, and therefore don't tend to attract the sort of talent that they need.
- int_19h 8y ago
  I can think of quite a few qualified people that'd be happy to move to a small town in the middle of nowhere, if they could work in a place like Google, get the same paycheck as their colleagues in California offices, but have a significantly lower cost of living. So I don't think that's really a problem - they would certainly have enough people to kickstart such a thing, and then it would just grow.
  - feri339 8y ago
    But that's not gonna happen. They will most likely not get the same paycheck as their colleagues on the coasts. Mostly because the cost of living is much lower. Edit: In my experience I have more net money if I work in place with high cost of living and high comp compared to the opposite.
    - 8y ago
TulliusCicero 8y ago
> How do we get Google to move, say, 10% of those high-paying jobs to places whose economy really needs them? Create the amenities and environment that would be enticing to a large % of affluent, highly skilled tech workers. This is very much non-trivial, these workers actually can afford bay area/Seattle prices on some level, so just cost of living isn't gonna attract them if there aren't good educational opportunities, no good nature around, no other companies around with good jobs, a less tolerant/accepting culture, no public transportation or biking to speak of, etc. Hacker News gets a lot of flippant comments suggesting this would be trivial for Google or Facebook or whoever to do, but it wouldn't be, at least not in a way that would actually make sense for their business. Businesses are fairly rational actors, you have to have such an expansion or move work in their interests.
- closeparen 8y ago
  I don't actually know many people who think that access to Bay Area amenities is the highest and best use of a tech salary. I and most people I know would deploy our cash in other ways (international travel, earlier retirement, expensive hobbies, etc). if we could do so while keeping our jobs. That opportunity just isn't on the table. I've chatted with the few of the people involved in siting our remote engineering offices. They're solidly convinced that there's no point even trying to recruit in the US outside SF/NY/SEA, and are looking directly to the developing world. The satellite office strategy in the era of Trump is to the hire the H1Bs where they don't need visas.
  - TulliusCicero 8y ago
    International travel is actually one of the advantages of many of the high cost areas, including the bay area and NYC. One or more major airports with lots of international connections is a big advantage. There are a few cheap metros that have that too (mostly the bigger ones, of course), but not many. > I don't actually know many people who think that access to Bay Area amenities is the highest and best use of a tech salary. A lot of things are kind of hidden, they don't become an issue until they're gone. People may not think about the bay area weather or crime rate very much until they're pondering a move to Chicago or Detroit. They may not think about the bay area's cultural diversity or educational opportunities until they're considering moving to a small city in Nebraska. People take the things they already have for granted. For example, I basically took for granted many American/west coast/bay area-n advantages before I moved to Munich and lost them: amazing restaurant scene (especially Asian/Mexican food), business hours are generally convenient, online selection of goods (especially Amazon) very strong, electronics relatively cheap, robust nerd culture, etc.
feri339 8y ago
I talked about this in another post. I'm sure there are many different types of tech worker. But right now (I'm in my twenties) when evaluating a job offer the location is super important. Sure buying power and rent price is a factor. But I'd gladly take a hit there and work in place like Berlin, Amsterdam, New York City, SF as opposed to somewhere less cosmopolitan. In terms of culture and life outside of work it's just that I vastly prefer to stay in such an area. That's a personal perspective. From the companys' POV they have to consider who would move there (for the reason above and a myriad of others). Are there good schools in the area? How is the regulatory environment. How is the reaction to loads of immigration. There tend to be a lot H-1B workers in the tech sector. It makes a lot of sense from a business perspective to set up shop in a place where a lot of perspective employees already live.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> How do we get Google to move, say, 10% of those high-paying jobs to places whose economy really needs them? You don't. If you want a future Google (etc.) to be located there, you make the same kind of massive public investments over an extended period that created Silicon Valley, which also provides jobs there — but not from a Google-equivalent — in the interim. Or, you subsidize people moving to where the jobs are now: geography doesn't need jobs, people do.

by csense 8y ago

gammateam 8y ago

I get your question is how, the answer is that its not gonna happen Bezos’ fake contest accurately reflects the coastal mentality. There is a culture that supports this industry which has history that wont be replicated by a random town that wants to call itself Silicon Apalachia/whatever geographic feature is nearby

usaar333 8y ago

> How do we get Google to move, say, 10% of those high-paying jobs to places whose economy really needs them? You'd need to incentivize a critical mass of high-paid workers to be willing to move there. As you note, money won't do it -- you'd need to offer some sort of unique opportunity. Finding such a thing is a very hard problem..

SomewhatLikely 8y ago
You really do need a critical mass. I moved for my last job search and one option was for LinkedIn in Omaha. Compared to a tech hub, such a job is risky. I'm starting a family and would prefer they don't have to move more than necessary. Jobs don't always work out and living in a city with lots of tech jobs means I don't have to ever move again because of work if I don't want to. Then there's the added bonuses when a certain percentage of your community work in tech. Then the goals of your community align better with your goals for your kids, for entertainment, recreation, shopping, the environment, etc.

AuthorizedCust 8y ago

Does your ZIP code have the kind of employees that Google needs to succeed?

deathanatos 8y ago
Does his/her ZIP code have the kind of employers those employees need to succeed? It's a chicken and egg problem. Personally, I put the onus on the companies, as they have much more power than any individual employee does. It is certainly possible for a company of that size to open a small office, and gradually grow it, whereas an employee is restricted to what jobs are available in that area. And we need more diversification geographically; too much is centered on the Bay Area, and the Bay Area's housing crisis is proof of it.
- goodcanadian 8y ago
  The trouble I've personally seen is that the companies believe they can pay less in the lower cost of living areas, and therefore don't tend to attract the sort of talent that they need.
int_19h 8y ago
I can think of quite a few qualified people that'd be happy to move to a small town in the middle of nowhere, if they could work in a place like Google, get the same paycheck as their colleagues in California offices, but have a significantly lower cost of living. So I don't think that's really a problem - they would certainly have enough people to kickstart such a thing, and then it would just grow.
- feri339 8y ago
  But that's not gonna happen. They will most likely not get the same paycheck as their colleagues on the coasts. Mostly because the cost of living is much lower. Edit: In my experience I have more net money if I work in place with high cost of living and high comp compared to the opposite.
  - 8y ago

TulliusCicero 8y ago

> How do we get Google to move, say, 10% of those high-paying jobs to places whose economy really needs them? Create the amenities and environment that would be enticing to a large % of affluent, highly skilled tech workers. This is very much non-trivial, these workers actually can afford bay area/Seattle prices on some level, so just cost of living isn't gonna attract them if there aren't good educational opportunities, no good nature around, no other companies around with good jobs, a less tolerant/accepting culture, no public transportation or biking to speak of, etc. Hacker News gets a lot of flippant comments suggesting this would be trivial for Google or Facebook or whoever to do, but it wouldn't be, at least not in a way that would actually make sense for their business. Businesses are fairly rational actors, you have to have such an expansion or move work in their interests.

closeparen 8y ago
I don't actually know many people who think that access to Bay Area amenities is the highest and best use of a tech salary. I and most people I know would deploy our cash in other ways (international travel, earlier retirement, expensive hobbies, etc). if we could do so while keeping our jobs. That opportunity just isn't on the table. I've chatted with the few of the people involved in siting our remote engineering offices. They're solidly convinced that there's no point even trying to recruit in the US outside SF/NY/SEA, and are looking directly to the developing world. The satellite office strategy in the era of Trump is to the hire the H1Bs where they don't need visas.
- TulliusCicero 8y ago
  International travel is actually one of the advantages of many of the high cost areas, including the bay area and NYC. One or more major airports with lots of international connections is a big advantage. There are a few cheap metros that have that too (mostly the bigger ones, of course), but not many. > I don't actually know many people who think that access to Bay Area amenities is the highest and best use of a tech salary. A lot of things are kind of hidden, they don't become an issue until they're gone. People may not think about the bay area weather or crime rate very much until they're pondering a move to Chicago or Detroit. They may not think about the bay area's cultural diversity or educational opportunities until they're considering moving to a small city in Nebraska. People take the things they already have for granted. For example, I basically took for granted many American/west coast/bay area-n advantages before I moved to Munich and lost them: amazing restaurant scene (especially Asian/Mexican food), business hours are generally convenient, online selection of goods (especially Amazon) very strong, electronics relatively cheap, robust nerd culture, etc.

feri339 8y ago

I talked about this in another post. I'm sure there are many different types of tech worker. But right now (I'm in my twenties) when evaluating a job offer the location is super important. Sure buying power and rent price is a factor. But I'd gladly take a hit there and work in place like Berlin, Amsterdam, New York City, SF as opposed to somewhere less cosmopolitan. In terms of culture and life outside of work it's just that I vastly prefer to stay in such an area. That's a personal perspective. From the companys' POV they have to consider who would move there (for the reason above and a myriad of others). Are there good schools in the area? How is the regulatory environment. How is the reaction to loads of immigration. There tend to be a lot H-1B workers in the tech sector. It makes a lot of sense from a business perspective to set up shop in a place where a lot of perspective employees already live.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> How do we get Google to move, say, 10% of those high-paying jobs to places whose economy really needs them? You don't. If you want a future Google (etc.) to be located there, you make the same kind of massive public investments over an extended period that created Silicon Valley, which also provides jobs there — but not from a Google-equivalent — in the interim. Or, you subsidize people moving to where the jobs are now: geography doesn't need jobs, people do.